Author Topic: small hive beetles? (Read 6985 times)

joker1656 · « **on:** July 30, 2010, 02:42:18 pm »

Are SHBs about the size of ladybugs? I had several little bugs that look like pics I have seen of SHB. They can fly, and I am pretty sure that is what they are. I guess Indiana has 'em.

My one bit of confusion is that they are larger than I expected. I have not found any "actual size" pictures.

AllenF · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2010, 03:07:15 pm »

Yes, they are about the size of a lady bug, or at least a small lady bug. They fit inside a honey comb cell very easy. If want to see some, I might could send you some. :-D

joker1656 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2010, 03:09:59 pm »

well, that is a bummer .... And no thanks, Allen LOL .

I guess that explains why a couple of my hives have been stressed and are dealing with EFB.

I already planned on moving the hives to a much more sunny location. Will that help with the SHB?

Pink Cow · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2010, 03:16:22 pm »

Check This

scoobee · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2010, 03:18:22 pm »

Hey Joker, From what I was told and learned, the more direct and longer direct sun the better. Hope this helps.

Scoobee

AllenF · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2010, 03:19:24 pm »

I like to use oil trays under and beetle barns through out the hive to kill the boogers. I have not used Gardstar in a while.

scoobee · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2010, 03:27:55 pm »

I thought I'd also throw this out. One of the members in my club does experimental things with her hives. She told us that she took a sprayer of 1:1 ratio with a 1/2 oz. of original listerine and sprayed the hives. Her first report she said that it did not hurt the bees but killed the shb's, then at the next meeting she stated that although it did not kill the shb's it did chase them out without harming the bees. I have not tried this method, I want to find out more. I guess fresh breath does go a long way.

Scoobee

FRAMEshift · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2010, 07:54:29 pm »

Quote from: scoobee on July 30, 2010, 03:27:55 pm

She told us that she took a sprayer of 1:1 ratio with a 1/2 oz. of original listerine and sprayed the hives.

Scoobee

From wikipedia:
The active ingredients listed on Listerine bottles are menthol, thymol, methyl salicylate, and eucalyptol. In combination all have an antiseptic effect and there is some thought that methyl salicylate may have an anti inflammatory effect as well. Ethanol, which is toxic to bacteria at concentrations of 40%, is present in concentrations of 21.6% in the flavored product and 26.9% in the original gold Listerine Antiseptic[citation needed]. At this concentration, the ethanol serves to dissolve the active ingredients.

Could you be a bit more exact about what is in the sprayer. If it's 1:1, what are the two components? And if it's 1/2 oz of Listerene, how much of some other substances is there?

scoobee · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2010, 09:02:07 pm »

Hey Frameshift, I have just joined the club and made it to 2 meetings. I am still wanting to get with her to get more info. But, I do know that it is 1 part water + 1 part sugar + 1/2 oz. original listerine. She sprayed all frames on both sides. Like I said, I'm still getting to know people and I'm going to try to corner her and get more info. When I do I will post what I find out.

Scoobee

FRAMEshift · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2010, 12:06:54 am »

Quote from: scoobee on July 30, 2010, 09:02:07 pm

Hey Frameshift, I have just joined the club and made it to 2 meetings. I am still wanting to get with her to get more info. But, I do know that it is 1 part water + 1 part sugar + 1/2 oz. original listerine. She sprayed all frames on both sides. Like I said, I'm still getting to know people and I'm going to try to corner her and get more info. When I do I will post what I find out.

Scoobee

Great. Yeah, it's hard to figure the concentration of listerene without knowing how much water is used. So I'll be watching to see what you find out. Thanks.

David Stokely · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2010, 09:08:39 am »

A few weeks ago I found 3 frames of drawn comb with shb, in a hive that had set empty for a few weeks due to the bees dying off for another reason. I'm about 90 miles to the NNW of you on the Indiana/Michigan line.

I was surprised. I mentioned it to another beek in the town where I live. He said that the presence of shb was a dirty little secret in the area. I scraped the frames off and they are being used by a swarm I caught. I've been vigilant, but haven't seen (or more importantly smelled) any more shb in my other hives yet. . .

scoobee · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2010, 01:37:26 pm »

Hey Frameshift and everyone else. I emailed the lady that told us about the listerine solution. The solution is, 1 cup water, 1 cup sugar and 1/2 oz. original listerine Put in spray bottle and she advised that there is no need to spray the bees. You spray the inside of the hive bodies and the inside of the inner cover and make sure you have a oil trap under your screened bottom board. Hope this helps, oh, and by the way. It probably wouldn't hurt to take a swig of the listerine before aproaching the hive. It will help let the girls know your intentions are peaceful.

Scoobee

FRAMEshift · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2010, 02:46:18 pm »

Thanks scoobee.

AllenF · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2010, 03:28:10 pm »

Taking a swig of listerine? Drinking before working the bees? Is it sunday already? (And only folks in the rural south would understand what our blue laws are with booze sales on sunday.)

joker1656 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2010, 08:27:15 pm »

That is a dirty little secret. They must fly with swarms too, because all of these hives are from swarms, or cutouts. They have not been transported from the south.

I would assume they would not survive without the bees over the winter. I only think this, because I had heard that this was the reason they were not this far north. I guess that goes out the window too, since they ARE here.

Anyway, thanks for the Listerine "defense". I will give it a whirl. Thanks!

FRAMEshift · « **Reply #15 on:** August 01, 2010, 03:34:26 pm »

Quote from: joker1656 on July 31, 2010, 08:27:15 pm

That is a dirty little secret. They must fly with swarms too, because all of these hives are from swarms, or cutouts. They have not been transported from the south.

Do you actually know they fly with the swarm, rather than flying from another hive? Have you seen them in a newly trapped swarm, like in a clean cardboard box you just caught them in?

joker1656 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2010, 04:22:29 pm »

No, I have not actually seen them in swarms. I thought I had read that somewhere, but I cannot say that it is a fact. I guess my point was, that they did not come here in a package of bees. I got 'em though.

FRAMEshift · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2010, 04:32:00 pm »

Quote from: joker1656 on August 01, 2010, 04:22:29 pm

No, I have not actually seen them in swarms. I thought I had read that somewhere, but I cannot say that it is a fact. I guess my point was, that they did not come here in a package of bees. I got 'em though.

We have them too, and I think they did come in a package. I'm going to set up some new isolated hives next spring, so I'm wondering if I might avoid the SHB, at least for a while. For example, if I sprayed a package with listerene on other property and then moved the boxes to the new location, maybe the SHB would not be making the trip.

David Stokely · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2010, 04:34:32 pm »

I think they are now living and breeding here. I don't believe that they have to come with anything anymore. After finding them, I reduced extra entrance ways into the hives. I did have the outer covers propped up for ventilation. Everything I read says that to give your bees a better chance in keeping them out, you need to reduce the ways the beetles can get in.

scoobee · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2010, 09:36:47 pm »

Hey Frameshift, I believe that what your saying is that you will spray the insides of whatever your going to put your bees in before you put the bees inside and to that I would agree thats a good idea. I don't think that at this particular time I would spray the bees directly, I may have missed the mark with your last reply, if I have my apologies. I myself have only one hive and I am reluctant to try spraying the bees directly as to the fact I don't know what harm it would if any do to them.
I also read in the ABJ from someone in Florida that he took a piece of lexan the same size of the inner cover and replaced the inner cover with it allowing more light in the hive. He stated that within a month he has noticed a drastic reduction in shb's. I have a piece of plexiglass that I am fitting to size on my hive right now to try it. And you never know. a combination of both ways might work even better.

Scoobee

FRAMEshift · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2010, 09:49:55 pm »

Quote from: scoobee on August 01, 2010, 09:36:47 pm

Hey Frameshift, I believe that what your saying is that you will spray the insides of whatever your going to put your bees in before you put the bees inside and to that I would agree thats a good idea. I don't think that at this particular time I would spray the bees directly, I may have missed the mark with your last reply, if I have my apologies. I myself have only one hive and I am reluctant to try spraying the bees directly as to the fact I don't know what harm it would if any do to them.

I talked this over with my daughter since my last post. I was thinking of spraying the bees directly in the package cage, because we don't use any chemicals in the hive. I thought that since the bees are treated with God-knows-what before we get them that it would not make much difference. She pointed out that the alcohol would probably hurt the bees, so we may try some non-alcohol treatment with thymol, etc if we can get the substance into solution. Not sure this will work. We will definitely do a sugar shake with the package cage to knock back the mites.

Quote

I also read in the ABJ from someone in Florida that he took a piece of lexan the same size of the inner cover and replaced the inner cover with it allowing more light in the hive. He stated that within a month he has noticed a drastic reduction in shb's. I have a piece of plexiglass that I am fitting to size on my hive right now to try it. And you never know. a combination of both ways might work even better.
Scoobee

I could increase light just by removing the bottom board below my screened bottom. I have heard some concerns about too much light interfering with the queen laying. Might also make the bees more likely to swarm to get away from the light. Any thoughts on that?

scoobee · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2010, 10:57:52 pm »

That might work and was also a concern with to much light for me. I emailed the person that wrote the article about the lexan and what he did was, he replaced the inner cover with the lexan then took a couple of bricks on top, then the top cover so as not to allow to much light. I guess you could adjust the height and light to your comfort.

Scoobee

Sparky · « **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2010, 11:09:58 pm »

Let us know how the plastic top works for you. I would think that it would make it hot as the devil inside.

Meadlover · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2010, 11:34:53 pm »

Quote from: FRAMEshift on August 01, 2010, 03:34:26 pm

Quote from: joker1656 on July 31, 2010, 08:27:15 pm
That is a dirty little secret. They must fly with swarms too, because all of these hives are from swarms, or cutouts. They have not been transported from the south.
Do you actually know they fly with the swarm, rather than flying from another hive? Have you seen them in a newly trapped swarm, like in a clean cardboard box you just caught them in?

Swarms are definitely a vector for SHB.
I collected a cut out from inside a wall, and a swarm on a tree earlier in the year and both had SHB in them.

ML

Paynesgrey · « **Reply #24 on:** August 02, 2010, 09:27:02 pm »

Down here for ventilation they remove the bottom boards and Varroa mit counting/sticky boards much of the summer for ventilation, but I have also been told by many that having solid bottom boards on gives the beetles more places to hide. Bottom oil pans are widely recommended for below the screened BB, for Varoa and the SHB. I have not heard anyone complain or mention that not having a solid bottom board has affected laying. I guess if it does, it is better than the beetles getting out of hand and sliming the whole hive :)

We were watching the Ohio Beekeeping series on pests last night, which is so old that it does not mention SHB. It said that wax moths are not _as much_ :) a problem in the north and north east as down south, because the winters do kill them out, and they have to migrate north each year, so it takes a couple more months for them to get far north, but that down here in the south, they can really get a standing population built up.

I hope for you that the SHB will not be able to survive the bitter cold winters up there, and population will at least cut down each year. They are said to fly up to 50 miles a night, so I can see how they spread every year. 10 nights is 500 miles...