Nuc size acceptable from supplier

[threehives]

Hi All

I just purchased 3 x Nucs from a supplier and have installed them into hives. They were 4 frames nucs, two of the nucs had only 2 frames of drawn comb with no eggs or larva visible, some capped brood and very little honey or pollen, one nuc having two empty frames with just foundation. they were purchased for $185 each and I had to supply my own box for pick up. This is the first time I've purchased nucs and i just want to know if this seems acceptable.

Thanks
Regards Phill

[Andersonhoney]

We sell neucs. No this is not acceptable at all. Return them to your supplier. It's easy for nuc sellers to rip off new beekeepers, that does no one any good, it gives us commercial beekeepers a bad name a puts a bad taste in the new beekeepers mouth. Yes it has been the hardest year I've known for raising neucs, which is hard to explain to newbies who call every time the sun shines wanting to know when when when. But still that is no excuse.  I'm hoping that the supplier has made a mistake given you a failed nuc by mistake and will fix it up as soon as you contact them. Good luck. Where are you located.

[threehives]

I dont think it was a mistake as I watched (from a distance as i didn't have my bee suit) him install the nucs into my boxes. It was only till I installed them this afternoon that I was able to see the frames and the little brood/honey. The supplier is 2.5hrs away so its a bit hard to take back, he won't be getting any more business from me thats for sure.

[PhilK]

I would speak to the supplier mate... As far as my understanding goes, they should make the nuc up and keep it at their place until it is obviously doing well before giving it to you. If he just pulled some frames out into a nuc box and gave them to you at the same time that isn't really good enough. We just got a bunch of 4 frame nucs for $105 each that are doing well - they will need to be transferred pretty much within the next day or so as they are so full. I think you got ripped off.

[Andersonhoney]

Threehives are you in Victoria. ?
I didn't really think it was a mistake either just trying to give him the benefit of doubt.
I'm sorry for you as it should be an exciting time for you. Better luck next time.

[BeeMaster2]

Threehives,
I had the same situation when I bought my first 2 nucs, from 2 different companies.
The first one was five frames of bees but for the first 3 weeks, it was constantly dumping young drones out the front door. I told the owner and he came right out to my farm to check on it, a 1 hour drive for him. It turned out that I had picked up the nuc box the same daay he received it and had found problems with the other nucs. My queen had Defective Wing Virus and could never have made her maiden flights. He replaced the Queen with one he brought but it was too late and the SHB destroyed the hive. He then gave me a 2 deep hive that had swarmed. That hive produced a lot of honey that year and the next.
My second nuc, the owners husband put the frames in my hive. I suspected something was wrong when he moved 2 frames together and then 3 frames together. During my 1st inspection a week later, I found out why, there were only 3 frames of bees and empty drawn frames on both ends. 2 weeks later, I called the owner and she agreed to replace it but she wanted it back so that she could build it up. When I went to take it back I found that the hive had exploded and filled all 5 frames with bees and decided to keep it. It produced 40 pounds of honey that year.
Talk to the owner. If he/she does not want to correct the situation, never deal with them again and let your fellow beeks at your club know what happened.

[threehives]

Im in Wagga Wagga, NSW but i picked the nucs up from a supplier near Canberra. I have contacted him and ill wait and see if he rectifies the problem. I will be taking some photos and spreading the word if nothing is done as I don't like being taken advantage of, and I drove for 5hrs especially to pick them up. The other issue I had was when I ordered the nucs they were $160 each (I ordered them back in march) since then he has changed the price to $180 and charged me the new price which I would not have been to concerned about if the Nucs were strong.

The supplier seemed to be reputable, thats why I went with them.

Ill wait and see.

thanks for everyones input

Phill

[BeeMaster2]

He is not a good supplier. If he quoted you a price and you ordered the nucs, he should have stuck to his deal.
Let us know how it works out.
Jim

[Acebird]

If he quoted you a price and you ordered the nucs, he should have stuck to his deal.

Only if money changed hands at the time of the order.  If the nucs were paid at time of pick up then the price is at time of pick up.  But what the OP got wasn't close to what I call a nuc.  If there is no eggs from the installed queen it isn't an acceptable nuc.  That is first and foremost.

[threehives]

I payed a $170 deposit in march for three Nucs. At the time they were $160 each and in the last 3 or 4 weeks he has changed the price to $180 if you are only getting the bees and not purchasing a hive from him with the bees installed??? Ill get in contact with him again today and see what he has to say. Ill hopefully be able to take some photos this afternoon and ill put them up.

[Acebird]

If he took a deposit and then changed the price after the fact he is not a good person to do business with.  Get what ever you can out of him for these nucs and then avoid him.

[max2]

I have been making nuc's for sale for a good number of years.

While the described deal may sound not "fair" - in practice it is probably close to the industry standard.

In our case we take 3 frames with brood, one frame with honey and pollen plus a frame with new or drawn foundation plus a new, mated queen.We then keep the nuc ( generally in our box) for a while until we can see how the queen is laying. Such nuc's , under reasonable conditions, will take off very quickly.

For us, as the producer, there is little money in this. We make the nuc in our yard, take them to another yard for about a week and then bring them back for eventual sale.

The buyer receives a total of about 16000 bees ( some on the frames, some yet to hatch), 5 frames  ( some old), a queen, some honey plus a sheet explaining the next steps and probably up to an hour of our time when they pick the nuc up.

I wonder what this is worth?

Interestingly Warhurst and Goebel in "The Bee Book" on page 106 say "a four frame nucleus is the most common type and contains two frames of brood,and bees, one of honey and one good-quality empty comb.

They then describe two common means of making a nuc and in method one they suggest "lift one to two frames of brood".

Go to my website for some hints on nuc's and the summer edition of my newsletter ( out soon) will have more information. Go to http://ecologicalsolutions.com.au/bees/

The bottom line is that nuc's like we do them ( for us and for sale) takes a lot of resources and time.

We will be re-doing the figures for next year...

[Acebird]

They were 4 frames nucs, two of the nucs had only 2 frames of drawn comb with no eggs or larva visible, some capped brood and very little honey or pollen, one nuc having two empty frames with just foundation.

Max2 you think this is industry standard?  No eggs, no larvae, two empty frames and a price increase on day of pick up.  What comes to my mind is horse trader.

[max2]

Acebird - you are correct with your assessment .
I suspect that the brood had hatched and the nuc was going through a cycle.

My comments where more general. Two frames with brood/bees and two frames with honey/pollen/bees is about standard.

I have dealt with a lot of nuc's and a great frame can look lousy a couple of days later.

I have also noticed that a lot of beekeepers find it difficult to see eggs.

I'm sure there are sellers of nuc's around giving a raw deal. The FLOW hive has created and incredible  demand and you will get all types trying to make a quick dollar

[Acebird]

I got spoiled when I started.  I have only purchased two nucs in 6 years and they were 5 framers and none of them were bare foundation.  The first one was picked up a month after it was made and the second one was created right in front of me.  I killed the first one with a hive top feeder on all winter.  The hives I have now are offspring of that second nuc.

I support the flow hive concept.  I just wished they didn't sell it to newbies.  The inventors have made a killing with it but I don't think the negativity that is supported by newbies failing with it will work out for the long term.

OH, btw, I can't see eggs but three days later I can see the larvae.  That proves there were eggs.

[PhilK]

I support the flow hive concept.  I just wished they didn't sell it to newbies.  The inventors have made a killing with it but I don't think the negativity that is supported by newbies failing with it will work out for the long term.

Off topic I know but I love the Flow hive concept. More people keeping bees, and being aware of bees, is a good thing. The Flow hive comes with a lot of support, and they have their own beekeeping forum as well. You still need to manage your bottom box with standard Langstroth frames just like any other beekeeper, so by the time your bees are doing well enough to need a super you're not just some random person keeping bees.

I know a number of flow hive beekeepers and they are all conscientious and just as good as any other beekeepers I know, despite the flow hive being their first hive. Of course there are some people who do badly with flow hives, but aren't there some people who do badly with Langs, Warres, and top bars? You just need to read through the boards here to show that having a Flow hive is not needed to make mistakes/fail at beekeeping.

[max2]

Acebird - the reason we put an empty frame ( drawn if possible) in a 5 frame nuc in our climate is simply to give the queen some extra space. A nuc is a perishable commodity. I let people know about 3 days in advance when they have to pick-up a nuc. If they don't come along for 10 days I need that space or the nuc may even swarm.

Agree about eggs and larvae - I suspect that some new beekeepers ( and not so new) could look at an "empty" frame which may well be full of eggs.

I do think that while most people have a reasonable understanding of bees and nuc's some simply don't have the experience to judge a good from a bad nuc. Is a nuc which is so strong that they built into the lid a bad nuc?

[Acebird]

Typically when you pick up a nuc you put it in a full size box.  So you are going to add 3 or 5 frames of foundation.  No worries about space.  If you only really have two frames of bees then you got a worry because what you really got is a split.  A split might not do so well in a full box.  A nuc should have no problem.

[max2]

Brian,

I have people traveling long distances to pick-up a nuc. There is no "typical" here - some extra space gives some extra time "in case" the nuc can't be moved as quickly as we would like it to happen into a 10 frame super.