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Author Topic: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner  (Read 6825 times)

Offline gww

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2020, 03:29:36 pm »
thefifteen......
Anything over 22 inches is good for building most hive items.  If you ever know someone building a house, a lot of small stuff is thrown out.  You can get triangles of particle board big enough for tops and bottoms.  A quarter inch plywood is not that expensive even bought new for things like inter covers.  Some of what you use can depend on how particular you are on how things look.  There are places that have stuff arrive in crates that are just trash to the place that gets it.  As I mentioned earlier though, if you have to drive around looking, that is not free.  However, if you are always looking when you are going places anyway, you may see things you never noticed  before and that where always there.
Good luck
gww

Ps having a little imagination also helps.  If you have boards that are too narrow but used a corner like ace posted, you can put two boards on edge to get width.  If you get pallet that the boards are a little thinner, the bees will probably survive something that is not a full 3/4 inch thick or that is 1.5 inch thick.  You just have to do the math to get inside dimensions right and your telescoping tops big enough to go over it, the bees won't care.

Interchangeability is important.  You want all tops to fit all hives and such.

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2020, 04:14:18 pm »
...  Can I find lumber cheap enough to warrant the time and trouble involved?  And where would I find such lumber?

Gww covered it very well ... keep your eyes open.
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Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2020, 07:59:45 pm »
Bees are very small creatures.  Minor variations in cuts and dimensions to us are major to them.

The cost of lumber and materials today make the mass production of wood products very cheap.  Plastics are cheaper than that even!

My dad was an architect and I've built a house.  I build all kinds of things with my table saw, miter saw, router, and other tools.  I build hive parts.  But for the expensive nucs I bought to expand this spring I have two Paradise Honey Bee Boxes from Blue Sky.

Dr. Thomas Seely and others recommend single hive body management.  That is for the brood chamber -- just one deep hive body.  Then if you put a super on top and harvest it frame at a time, that is not much equipment.  Your labor is geared toward harvest instead of boxes.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Offline gww

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2020, 08:10:50 pm »
father michael
You have to realize what seeley is trying to accomplish with that suggestion.  Like all things bee keeping, what you want to accomplish has a lot to do with how you keep bees.  Some keep bees in fancy warre boxes in their garden more for decoration.  Some northern commercials use one brood box and winter in doors and take all honey and then feed heavy.  Some like me use all ten frame mediums and multiple boxes and try and not feed except in emergency's.  Seeley has much more involved in what he is trying to accomplish then just a box.  He wants distance between hives and no swarm prevention and lots more.  His bee keeping does not fit many beekeeper reality as a way to try and keep bees.  He studies bees and looks at it from the bees perspective while most bee keepers keep bees for the bee keeper.
Cheers
gww

Offline CapnChkn

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2020, 11:21:44 pm »
Acebird, building hives 10 years now.  A lot of the boxes here are CDX (Today, RTD), some solid wood.  I get a lot of cull, and force the wood into shape.  Still some of the boxes have big gaps in the corners, and the little bees fill it up.

Member, go to a house building site, and ask them if you can get some off-cuts.  I use the SPF or SYP (It's generic wood.  They mean, Spruce Pine Fir, and Southern Yellow Pine.) end cuts to make my side bars for the frames.  Anything that will handle the weather, RTD, or Solid wood, longer than 20 inches.  You can pull apart Pallets, they're good to practice on, being free, as long as you can find the wood stamped with HT and not treated wood.  The HT means Heat Treated.

Pressure treated is a no-no.  They used to use Copper Arsenate, which is toxic in any form, but now use borate "stuff," I think, and are more environmental friendly.  If you go to the Big Orange or other Big Box stores, you can find wood that's twisted or damaged, off cuts in the section where they cut wood for you, and "Stickers," which hold the wood apart from other bundles that they stack it on.  Look for the "Cull" pile in your local Building supply.  That wood can be as much as 70% off.  Ask if it's pressure treated.

You would want 3/4 inch thick lumber, the problem is the inside dimensions.  NO SPACE LARGER THAN 3/8 INCH!  Making boxes from thicker lumber is alright, but will have to be longer to accommodate the increase in outside dimensions.  And makes things heavier.  You would want to stick to standard sizes for trading frames and so on, and the boxes will not fit the same, so I would put the thicker wood on top so the water wouldn't run in the cracks.
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2020, 09:59:47 am »
I would put the thicker wood on top so the water wouldn't run in the cracks.
The bees fill the cracks between boxes and make it water proof.  When the sun comes out it dries the top ledge real quick.  If you put the boxes in the top they get filled with honey and you always have to lift those boxes.  IMO hot or cold it is better to have the thicker boxes on the bottom.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2020, 11:47:54 am »
Great advice everyone, thank you, thank you!  I'll start keeping my eyes peeled when I go places to see what my options would be for getting wood.  I'm seriously considering yes2matt's advice about making tops and bottoms.  Particularly tops seem like a good place to start because the exact size and spacing with a top doesn't matter at all really.  As long as it covers the top of the hive and doesn't fall off or leak or something I could still use it, so it seems kinda hard to screw that up.  Bottoms seem a little harder, but would be good too, since I liked Brushy Mountain's bottoms the most and I obviously can't get them any more.         
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 11:59:45 am by The15thMember »
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Offline CapnChkn

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2020, 03:31:40 pm »
Acebird, I know!  My thinking is the water will sit on the exposed area.  They won't always be propolized up.  It's a minor point.  Having the boxes built to a standard, whether it's 3/4 inch, or 1 1/2 inch thickness, would be important.

To interact with the rest of the beekeeping community, the frames and other "movable" equipment would need to fit in the community standard.  To speak, you need a frame of open brood, and negotiate with another beekeeper.  When you trade frames, you want those frames to fit inside the hive, and all hives.

So, to carry this to a conclusion, it doesn't really matter what the design of the hive is, as long as the inside dimensions will accommodate the community standard.  All in all, the thickness of the wood is 3/4 inch for convenience, but trading the supers becomes a problem when those boxes aren't the same size.  Whether it's boxes in the same yard, or trading with another.

My example is trading the frames inside my own hives.  Having deeps and mediums became a hassle.  I've been slowly getting rid of all the deep equipment, and now have nothing but mediums.  The deep nucs make pretty good swarm traps with medium frames inside.
"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2020, 03:45:13 pm »
There is alot of mismatched equipment out there which often makes it a challenge to integrate into your apiary as your operation grows.  Poor fitment and bee space violations are rampant. 
The issue is never whether one can build their own equipment.  It is whether one should.

My advice would be keep it simple.  Build some specific stuff, buy some specific stuff.  This way ensures function and compatibility of equipment for your lifetime in the bees.

To state it simply and specifically:
Always BUILD: lids, bases, escape boards, inner covers, traps, stands, top feeders, nucleus boxes, any other misc or specialty equipment
Always BUY:  box kits unsassembled, frames assembled, queen excluders (steel only). Stay committed to the same brand/manufacturer for boxes and frames.


When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline gww

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2020, 05:17:30 pm »
This is my view and my view only.  I built lots with rough cut lumber before I got my planer.  My biggest mistake was due to wood thickness, my tops would not fit a few boxes.  I adjusted the tops to be a tiny bit bigger and now no problem.  I do not worry about the edge of the box being wider on some then others,  As long as the inside is good, then the boxes will fit just fine.  As far as rain going into the box due to hitting a lip, I tilt the hive a tiny bit forward and have never noticed a problem.  I don;t mind a tiny bit of water on the walls.  I would not like water dripping down the center of the hive though with my stuff, I have had lids hold water on top and could see it making its way through a hive or two.  The other problem is that when the boxes are not exact, it can be a little harder to break the propolus that holds them together.
Maybe the boxes don't look quite as good but the bees don't mind.  The inside is important.
Cheers
gww

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2020, 06:13:52 pm »
All what is said about materials is right, bees don't care so long as they can make it comfortable for themselves, but if you are to move from a few hives then deciding on a standard design and material becomes important.
You don't know sometimes where the fascination with bees will lead you. I bought a single hive 13-14 years ago to have in the backyard, this has grown into a full time business.
The early attempts at box manufacture with various materials were a frustration. Also my first hive was a 10 frame, which I soon learnt that the full depth supers are very heavy when full of honey, so we went to 8's.
Even at a small scale, standardised boxes allow for flexibility to swap things around when necessary.
Standardisation needs to be within industry dimensions so as when a good deal on some flat packs or boxes comes up you can take advantage of it and they mesh into your apiary.

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2020, 06:47:26 pm »
father michael
You have to realize what seeley is trying to accomplish with that suggestion.  Like all things bee keeping, what you want to accomplish has a lot to do with how you keep bees.  Some keep bees in fancy warre boxes in their garden more for decoration.  Some northern commercials use one brood box and winter in doors and take all honey and then feed heavy.  Some like me use all ten frame mediums and multiple boxes and try and not feed except in emergency's.  Seeley has much more involved in what he is trying to accomplish then just a box.  He wants distance between hives and no swarm prevention and lots more.  His bee keeping does not fit many beekeeper reality as a way to try and keep bees.  He studies bees and looks at it from the bees perspective while most bee keepers keep bees for the bee keeper.
Cheers
gww

Seely has convinced me that it is cruel to keep bees in thin walled hives.  It is too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter.

If it is cruel to the bees then it must not be very productive.

In another topic we can see that I insulated my one hive with wool blankets and a watershed.

They are doing so well that I don't know what to think.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Offline gww

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2020, 07:15:26 pm »
father micheal
Lots of bees do well.  They do so well that millions of packages are sold and there is always bees for sale every year.  Lots of bees are killed by error by us and by disease but there always seem to be plenty of replacement bees.  Lots of different ways to skin a cat and have success.  Nothing wrong with having a favorite as long as success is still recognized in others that also have success.  It is the same with building hives.  Some use cedar, some pine, I have used oak, etc.  I use all medium for the interchangeability of everything fitting everything.  Doesn't make it best but the bees do quite well in it.  Seeley studies bees and their habits and response against disease.  He has put out a bee keeping theory for people to try based on those studies.  Those theories would never work for a migratory bee keeper or some one with space constraints.  Lots of people with these restraints make a living with bees and always have extra to sell to others.  I see your point for those who may have a goal related to that point.   I wish I could find it, but I did read at least one study that said bees in thick hives had more nosema.

So thick hives might do better (location may play also) but bees do well even far north in thin hives also.  The bees heat the cluster not the hive.

Abby warre in his book made a good case for thinner walls in france due to the bees being more responsive to outside temps and sunlight.

My advice is always to look at what every one says and does and then find things from that to try for yourself and when you start having success that makes you happy, do that.
I am happy that you hives are doing well.
Cheers
gww

Ps seeleys way is for the bees to do good but even he admits that due to this, the bee keeper may have to accept less per hive for himself among other issues.  Again, he is looking at a different goal then many bee keepers look for.  If you only use one thing he says and not the whole package he is promoting than you really would not be following what seeley suggest.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2020, 08:32:55 pm »
15th, I have also built my own equipment, enjoy doing it but lumber can be expensive. Plus time is money. Miller bee makes one of the nicest hives I have bought. https://millerbeesupply.com/ And well priced. Still have to assemble. I will still build my nucs at a fraction, but when I expand next year will be calling miller .

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2020, 08:37:45 pm »
father micheal
Lots of bees do well.  They do so well that millions of packages are sold and there is always bees for sale every year.  Lots of bees are killed by error by us and by disease but there always seem to be plenty of replacement bees.  Lots of different ways to skin a cat and have success.  Nothing wrong with having a favorite as long as success is still recognized in others that also have success.  It is the same with building hives.  Some use cedar, some pine, I have used oak, etc.  I use all medium for the interchangeability of everything fitting everything.  Doesn't make it best but the bees do quite well in it.  Seeley studies bees and their habits and response against disease.  He has put out a bee keeping theory for people to try based on those studies.  Those theories would never work for a migratory bee keeper or some one with space constraints.  Lots of people with these restraints make a living with bees and always have extra to sell to others.  I see your point for those who may have a goal related to that point.   I wish I could find it, but I did read at least one study that said bees in thick hives had more nosema.

So thick hives might do better (location may play also) but bees do well even far north in thin hives also.  The bees heat the cluster not the hive.

Abby warre in his book made a good case for thinner walls in france due to the bees being more responsive to outside temps and sunlight.

My advice is always to look at what every one says and does and then find things from that to try for yourself and when you start having success that makes you happy, do that.
I am happy that you hives are doing well.
Cheers
gww

Ps seeleys way is for the bees to do good but even he admits that due to this, the bee keeper may have to accept less per hive for himself among other issues.  Again, he is looking at a different goal then many bee keepers look for.  If you only use one thing he says and not the whole package he is promoting than you really would not be following what seeley suggest.

Thank you, gww.  I'll take your comments to heart.

I've never had hard foam insulated hives so will be interested in how they work.

My one hive in a 1" cedar body is doing well.  But I paid more for it than the Paradise.  It was actually too expensive but I wanted how it looked in the back yard!  LOL
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Offline gww

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2020, 09:09:48 pm »
Father micheal
 I saw the video you posted and I agree, your hive looks good in your back yard.  Best of luck.
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2020, 08:47:01 am »
it doesn't really matter what the design of the hive is, as long as the inside dimensions will accommodate the community standard.
Yes, that is what I did.  I also just use medium size equipment.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline beesonhay465

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2020, 09:38:19 am »
if you are determined to buy some wookworking ,tools , check out garage sales and craigs list or other for sale sites. i was able to buy a table saw and a mitre saw for $ 35 each at a garage sale . i like to work on old tools. :cool:

Offline FatherMichael

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2020, 10:41:38 am »
Father micheal
 I saw the video you posted and I agree, your hive looks good in your back yard.  Best of luck.
Cheers
gww

Thanks.  The top I built for it needs reworking -- it turned out not very attractive.  Been sketching some alternatives and have come up with something much prettier, which will be better insulated, too.

Mary wants another hive in the back yard so am building one now.  She loves to decorate so am giving her a clean slate to work on, paint, stain, or whatever.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2020, 11:28:42 pm »
I just built this Nuc box today. I was wanting to have a nuc box for...
1. Carrying my supplies to the hive. I am tired of juggling empty frames, smoker, etc...
2. having a stool to sit on
3. taking honey frames when the time comes
4. Using it as a temporary hive for any unexpected swarm.
All I need is to add a migratory top with a hinge, and maybe a pouch or two for rubberbands, lemon oil, and such.
I cant help feeling (when I taking my stuff to the hive) like a tourist going to the beach with suntan lotion on my nose and a folding chair. I'm such a newbee.