BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER > EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS
Making Foundation
Beeboy01:
This has been a question that has been bouncing around in my head for a while. I've a lot of rendered wax and am interested in making my own foundation. My question is has anybody tried to set the foundation in the frames as it's being made? There are plenty of U Tube videos where they make foundation by dipping a wet paddle into hot wax, letting it cool then peeling it off the paddle. That gives a regular sheet of foundation that still needs to be placed in a frame.
I was thinking that it would be possible to take a pre wired frame sitting flat on a stationary wet piece of wood the size of the foundation that's being made and press the paddle with hot wax on it against the stationary block. The pre wiring would get inbedded in the wax and when cooled it should produce a wired frame with ready to go foundation. It wouldn't have any comb pattern on it but I've found that bees tend to draw out what they need not what's on the foundation.
Guess I'm getting some cabin fever sitting around and need to cut back on my coffee but can't see any drawbacks in giving it a try. Any thoughts about it?
Thanks All
Here's a followup, it almost works but the wire or fishing line which I just tried it with doesn't get inbedded in the wax enough. I tried using two pieces of foundation and tried sandwiching the line between it. Couldn't get a good fusion between the two sheets of wax so that's out. It also used way too much wax. Dipping a wet paddle in hot wax actually produces a pretty nice sheet of wax.
Had some success by laying the frame and line on a piece of home made foundation and painting the wax over the fishing line which might be the way to go. Need to make a slightly bigger paddle to fill the space in the frame from top to bottom bar, I'm about 1/4 inch narrow. I was only working with a few shallow frames today just trying different ideas, not sure how it will transfer over to deep frames which need more support for the foundation.
Maybe pouring the wax onto the base then flattening it with the paddle while liquid would get the support fishing line inbedded properly. Going to give that a try next using a ladle for the pour.
Absinthe:
A couple things to note.
If you are using wire as opposed to monofilament have you simply tried laying the wax sheet on it and hitting it with a battery for a few seconds to let it melt in?
In the examples I have seen where they made sheets (without the cell impressions) there was a second step of rolling them that had a tempering effect so that they weren't so brittle. This may be difficult to do once it is within the confines of the frame, but perhaps have you considered doing the rolling when the wire/mono is present, like with a glass instead of a rolling pin that would fit between the frame?
Not sure the frame size you are going for, but how about if you simply weave the foundation between the wires? And let the bees do the integration for you later?
I am not sure that your size is too bad. Consider when people do starter strips the obviously don't reach the bottom, and even with full sheets of wax foundation, the bees tend to chew holes here and there along the sides for communication. The wax foundation is kind of just a "suggestion" with the goal of keeping things straight.
Acebird:
If the foundation is not sufficiently thin in the center of the cells then the bees will rework it. I am not sure what you gain by making your own foundation if it causes more work for the bees. Don't get me wrong I have had these ideas too. I cast the idea away because I don't see the gain.
Beeboy01:
So far pouring the wax and then pressing it flat has shown the most promise. With the cost of wax foundation going through the roof and having about fifty pounds of wax sitting around it is simply an economic decision to make my own. I have plenty of time to work out any problems since the Coronavirus-19 pandemic is still in full force and I'm practicing safe lockdown.
AceB, having the bees move the wax around is a lot more resource efficient than having them build fresh comb every time a frame is installed. I don't understand why you think thick foundation could be a waste of resources when bees rework most foundation anyways. The only resource I'm "wasting" with thick foundation is the wax which is free.
It's mainly an economic decision on my part but also helps my bee yard to become almost completely self sufficient and cost free. I'm already breeding my own queens and haven't purchased any nucs in about five years. Purchasing foundation has always been an expense since I try to swap it out every four years as recommended.
I don't think there is any need to "temper" the wax since it's already in place and doesn't need to be manipulated when installed in the frame. The home made foundation is also a little thicker which makes it stronger and resistant to cracking. If I was going to use the foundation like commercially made where it needs to be installed in a frame then I could see the need to "temper" it so it's not brittle but that's not the objective of what I'm attempting.
Ben Framed:
Beeboy, have you considered buying a roller type embosser? The initial cost would be a lot but should last a lifetime? I do not have one, nor know anyone who has one. I did see them advertised on Alibaba. I would suppose you would have to be very careful when buying one. (Know the cell size). It might be a good idea to start a new topic asking if we have members here that use these and the results which may be obtained?
Phillip
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