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Author Topic: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays  (Read 11056 times)

Online Terri Yaki

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2023, 11:57:48 am »
Just to clarify, you do definitely have varroa mites though.  :smile:
I did figure as much and I suspect that that's why his hive absconded.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2023, 12:41:19 am »
Just to clarify, you do definitely have varroa mites though.  :smile:
I did figure as much and I suspect that that's why his hive absconded.

At least you don't have to put up with SHB... If given a choice, (which I do not have, as I have both) , I would rather deal with Varroa... Some might not agree...

Phillip
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Online Terri Yaki

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2023, 09:33:10 am »
Just to clarify, you do definitely have varroa mites though.  :smile:
I did figure as much and I suspect that that's why his hive absconded.

At least you don't have to put up with SHB... If given a choice, (which I do not have, as I have both) , I would rather deal with Varroa... Some might not agree...

Phillip
Having no experience and just reading, I agree with you. I have also been taking in what I can about going treatment free but it does not sound like it works well. I'm but a mere retired truck driver but I don't see how the bees can become resistant. For comparison, my cats have not become flea resistant.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2023, 09:40:39 am »
There has to be selection to build resistance.  I.e. the ones not resistant have to die to be removed from the gene pool.  Fleas don't kill cats.
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Online Terri Yaki

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2023, 09:57:58 am »
There has to be selection to build resistance.  I.e. the ones not resistant have to die to be removed from the gene pool.  Fleas don't kill cats.
What do the mites do to the bees?

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2023, 10:02:47 am »
To put it in simple terms; They not only suck away body fat of the bee, which is like the bees liver which WILL bring certain and early death of the bee, but cary 'several' viruses that can and 'will' take the an entire colony.  They did not name this mite "Varroa Destructor" for noting. lol

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Terri Yaki

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2023, 10:57:24 am »
To put it in simple terms; They not only suck away body fat of the bee, which is like the bees liver which WILL bring certain and early death of the bee, but cary 'several' viruses that can and 'will' take the an entire colony.  They did not name this mite "Varroa Destructor" for noting. lol

Phillip
OK, and what could make the bees more resistant to them? I don't see how they could evolve out of that eating of their body fat thing but I suppose that they could build resistance to the other diseases. Plus, it looks to me like you rarely eliminate the mite completely, just control their population to something that won't kill the hive. In that case, shouldn't they build resistance during the treatment process, if they can?

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2023, 11:15:14 am »
Those points and more have been the discussed and debated all along between treatment and non treatment folks ... Each coming up with some fair points explaining their point of view and theories. Of course the dispute still marches on... 

A few questions referring to a dependable feasible strand of a "Varroa Resistant Bee":
If that strand of bee exist, would not the world be using that strand of bee?  Especially Commercial beekeepers? And wouldn't the originator of that stran of bee, be in the headlines of every bee magazine, newspaper and bee journal? As well and the talk of every college campus and research center the world over, which studies or has studied Varroa Destructor vs Bees ? If not why?

Phillip






« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 12:42:59 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2023, 12:22:18 pm »
OK, and what could make the bees more resistant to them? I don't see how they could evolve out of that eating of their body fat thing but I suppose that they could build resistance to the other diseases. Plus, it looks to me like you rarely eliminate the mite completely, just control their population to something that won't kill the hive.
The biggest problem is that varroa vector diseases, particularly viruses.  There is never a 100% infestation of mites, literally 1 mite on every bee; the worst infestation I've ever seen was like 25%, so 1/4 of the bees in the colony had mites.  Even if 1/4 of the bees are killed by the physical attack of the mites, that colony can still survive, as 3/4 of them still live to fight another day.  The problem comes when 1/4 of the colony is infected with a virus or several, and then the bees with mites spread that virus to the rest of the colony.  This is how a colony collapses from varroa.  We say we hope the bees develop "resistances to mites", but what we really mean is that we hope they develop resistance to the effects of the mites, not the mites themselves, because as you imply, the mites themselves are here to stay.   

In that case, shouldn't they build resistance during the treatment process, if they can?
This causes the mites, not the bees, to develop resistance to the treatment.  Synthetic chemical treatments only take out mites that are susceptible to them, and leave the resistant ones alive, so eventually the whole population in an area is resistant.  This has happened with several mite treatments on the market.  Some organic treatments, like OAV and formic, don't develop resistance in mites, or at least anywhere near as quickly, since they usually attack the mites more "mechanically", sort of in the same way that the mites attack the bees' fat bodies mechanically.   

Edit: I forget to mention something.  There is a way to make the bees resistance to the mites themselves, and that is breed bees with hygienic behavior, bees that clean the mites off, actively attack the mites, or pull pupae infested with mites before they have a chance to breed.   
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 12:55:47 pm by The15thMember »
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Offline Occam

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Re: Thoughts On Bottom Board Oil Trays
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2023, 09:57:36 pm »
I did an inspection on my horizontal inspection hive this past weekend. When I built the hive I put in a screened bottom board with DE fairly thick below. I didn't think far enough ahead to make this area asily accessible but will in future builds. That said in the de below I saw a half dozen or so mature shb dead in the DE, many squiggles leading nowhere, and some dark specks sprinkled here and there. No active beetles anywhere that i could find though i didn't search hard, was a quick inspection. Like I said next time they'll be accessible. I could move that hive to another body as well and modify this one and may well do so.
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