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Author Topic: Almost Dead Hive  (Read 5026 times)

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2021, 02:31:35 pm »
Member:  I have found very similar looking slides on bees that I checked after a varroa check.  I also don't know what all of the little circles are.  I saw some pollen in your first image, and maybe one of the "fried egg" things that Randy Oliver talks about in the second image.  Question:  what did you use to take your pictures?  My cell phone pics are not easy or great.  I have taken some with a webcam and looked at them on my computer.  Nothing I have seen are oblong, therefore I don't think they are nosema.
I just put my point-and-shoot Canon up to the eyepiece.  Then I can use the camera zoom if I need to, and the focus is usually pretty good.  I agree, the auto-focus on a phone camera doesn't work well with a microscope (or telescope) for some reason. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2021, 06:51:01 pm »
Just a follow-up on this situation.  My little sister came and told me my bees were acting weird this afternoon, and there was a robbing frenzy around this weak hive.  I figured they might be dead, so I popped the top, and sure enough whole rest of the cluster was dead in one corner.  Just not enough bees to keep warm.  I got the equipment into the freezer and cleaned up the stand for spring.  Thanks for all the help everyone.  I'll chalk this one up to freezing/unknown, and I'll probably reuse the nice comb as long as the other hives don't show signs of developing anything similar, since they probably were all robbing this hive out already anyway.         
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline JurassicApiary

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2021, 01:31:49 pm »
Sorry to hear the remainder didn't make it.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2021, 04:35:47 pm »
Something to consider, not yet mentioned other than jiminy.  Varroa damage to in the fall, from mid August through end of September.  In addition to the array of virus that the mite can propagate through the hive (invisible killers), the damage done to pupae during the critical period of raising the `winter bees` has a significant impact on winter survivability by shortening the lifespan of the bee.
I see many dead-outs with the characteristics you have described and shown in the pictures.  The hives start the winter with good populations.  In January they look ok.  By mid February there are no bees left in the hive.  Those deadouts occur end of January through end of February.  The lifespan of the winter bee is significantly shortened by mite damage in the fall.  Instead of living 6 months in winter, they live 3 months.  As a result the hive dies out suddenly 2/3 of the way through winter with no obvious signs of distress.
To check or validate this possibility on this hive, just check back into your inspection notes through 2020 on this hive.  This is when and why records are important.  Did it have varroa counts?  When did you check for mites?  When did you treat for mites?  How do those dates align with the critical time of when winter bees were being raised?  The hive may have been treated for Varro, however too late; meaning the damage was already done to the winter bees population before the varroa load was addressed.

Great job on the nosema check.

... for your considerations.
Hope that helps!

Hope that helps!
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2021, 05:00:14 pm »
Something to consider, not yet mentioned other than jiminy.  Varroa damage to in the fall, from mid August through end of September.  In addition to the array of virus that the mite can propagate through the hive (invisible killers), the damage done to pupae during the critical period of raising the `winter bees` has a significant impact on winter survivability by shortening the lifespan of the bee.
I see many dead-outs with the characteristics you have described and shown in the pictures.  The hives start the winter with good populations.  In January they look ok.  By mid February there are no bees left in the hive.  Those deadouts occur end of January through end of February.  The lifespan of the winter bee is significantly shortened by mite damage in the fall.  Instead of living 6 months in winter, they live 3 months.  As a result the hive dies out suddenly 2/3 of the way through winter with no obvious signs of distress.
To check or validate this possibility on this hive, just check back into your inspection notes through 2020 on this hive.  This is when and why records are important.  Did it have varroa counts?  When did you check for mites?  When did you treat for mites?  How do those dates align with the critical time of when winter bees were being raised?  The hive may have been treated for Varro, however too late; meaning the damage was already done to the winter bees population before the varroa load was addressed.

Great job on the nosema check.

... for your considerations.
Hope that helps!

Hope that helps!
It's a good point you make, HP.  I remember even without going and checking, because I was in great debate about what I wanted to do.  When I did my fall mite checks, this hive was right on the treatment line.  They were at like 2.7% or something like that, close to but not quite 3%, which is my treatment threshold going into winter.  I elected to go the minimalist route and I didn't treat them, and maybe that was a factor.     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2021, 09:19:06 am »
I elected to go the minimalist route and I didn't treat them, and maybe that was a factor.   
If you are going to treat one hive you should treat them all.  A treatment free hive cannot live amongst treated hives.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2021, 10:51:59 am »
If you are going to treat one hive you should treat them all.  A treatment free hive cannot live amongst treated hives.
It's not like this hive is treatment free and the rest are treated, I just only treat each hive when it needs it.  I don't want to treat any more than necessary, and I'm trying to work on treating without chemicals.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Bob Wilson

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2021, 11:33:35 pm »
15, I read your posts with interest. What year of beekeeping is this for you?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2021, 08:44:19 am »
I'm trying to work on treating without chemicals.
Well I guess what I am trying to say is you can't.  If you are OK with treating them now I would say just continue.  Trying to work you way into treatment free is like swimming against a rip tide.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Almost Dead Hive
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2021, 10:35:46 am »
15, I read your posts with interest. What year of beekeeping is this for you?
I'm about to enter my 4th spring, and I have 5 hives currently.  I'm glad my posts are interesting to you, Bob.  I like it when my experiences can not only help me out, but help others out as well.   :happy:
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.