Problem in the Beeyard

[Beeboy01]

Just got back from a three week road trip out to New Orleans and checked my little yard this morning. I was a little surprised to find thousands of dead bees out in front of the hives. Most looked like they had been there for about a week or longer but there were maybe a hundred or so live bees stumbling around on top of the dead ones. A quick check in the hives showed plenty of brood and bees along with one hive that had some queen cells. I couldn't see any signs of dwarf wing virus or "K" wings on the live bees out front so a virus kill isn't suspected.
  I'm positive that the die off wasn't caused by a robbing event. I use screened bottom boards with trays under them and every time robbing occurs I find dead bees on the trays which wasn't the case this time. Same with a superseding event.
  I'm a little puzzled about what caused the die off and am thinking that the bees got into a poison which wiped out most of the field bees which eliminated the generation of field bees who were active.  It must of occurred right after I left on the road trip since the hives seem to be recovering and from my quick inspection appear to have plenty of brood and a good population of bees in the hives although they weren't as aggressive as they sometimes are during inspection. The lower aggression could also be due to younger bees in the hive who haven't gotten defensive yet.
  Didn't want to waste the queen cells so did a quick split using a shallow from #1 and moved a few resources around to even things out. Beside that it looks like the season is upon me.
  Any thoughts about the die off would be appreciated, not sure how I could of prevented it and I'm hoping it doesn't have any long term effect on my yard. 
Thanks, Ed
 

[The15thMember]

I've never experienced it firsthand, thankfully, but that definitely sounds like an insecticide kill to me.  How were the live bees on the dead pile acting? 

[TheHoneyPump]

Agreed. As described it sure looks like someone sprayed forage nearby or perhaps even deliberately poisoned your bees while you were away.

[Beeboy01]

HP, I'm not sure if anybody could get close enough to my hives to deliberately poison them. They are behind the workshop protected by a heavy brush and a fence. I'm thinking it was something that was sprayed in the area which the girls got into.

15thM, the few bees that were outside the hive on the dead ones acted drunk and would fall over, stumble around and couldn't fly. The brood patterns in the hives looked good and I'm hoping the hives will survive. 

[The15thMember]

15thM, the few bees that were outside the hive on the dead ones acted drunk and would fall over, stumble around and couldn't fly.

Oh yeah, definitely a pesticide kill. 

[Ben Framed]

15thM, the few bees that were outside the hive on the dead ones acted drunk and would fall over, stumble around and couldn't fly.

Oh yeah, definitely a pesticide kill. 

Yes I think so too. This is the time of year when many plants may begin being sprayed. Maybe this happened by accident. I suspect that HP and 15th is right some type of pesticide or insecticide.

 

See the Topic:
"What does anyone know about...."
Started by: .30WCF July 07, 2021.
Last post by Michael Bush July 21 2021....Very interesting conversation about this sort of thing....

From another Topic:
"Dead bees". 
Started by: Fishing-Nut May 08, 2020
Last post by 2Sox May 11, 2020

Your hive is very likely poisoned.  I had a hive, 1 out of 15 that found a particular garden and the bees died by the hundreds.  Just one hive in the whole apiary.  The bees acted like they were covered with hot sauce, shaking, quivering then death,  there were hundreds of dead bees in front of the hive.  After a few weeks, I presume the gardener quit spraying or the bloom finished as the bees stoped dying.

Ditto what van said. Poison..... Cold would affect both hives. Poison, only the hive that found it.

[JurassicApiary]

I have to agree--unfortunately, it sounds like someone sprayed something within foraging range.  If you have any suspicions of which property, it may pay dividends to go and introduce yourself and see if they have the flexibility to spray before or after blooms, or if they must spray when blooms are present (such as they do with apples etc.), to at least give you a heads up of when they plan to and you can plan for it.

[beesnweeds]

Ive been to many apiary inspectors presentations and Im surprised at how many times thousands of dead and crawling bees around a hive always turned out to be caused by a virus.  The rare times it was poisoning it was by vandalism or an idiot neighbor caught on a trail cam. I would never rule out viruses until you have the bees sent to a lab. Beeboy could have a Florida inspector take a sample or contact the university of Florida, they have an excellent apiary program there.

[Ben Framed]

Ive been to many apiary inspectors presentations and Im surprised at how many times thousands of dead and crawling bees around a hive always turned out to be caused by a virus.  The rare times it was poisoning it was by vandalism or an idiot neighbor caught on a trail cam. I would never rule out viruses until you have the bees sent to a lab. Beeboy could have a Florida inspector take a sample or contact the university of Florida, they have an excellent apiary program there.

Beesnweeds as usual, you make good points. What ever the problem is I hope Beeboy01 does narrow it down to the direct problem. It would be beneficial not only to him, but to us all as I feel confident he would share the revelation with us here.

Phillip

[TheHoneyPump]

A virus looks like CCD, a collapse of the colony.  There may be a queen and a handful of bees left with large abandoned patches of brood. Dead bees may be a carpet out front or not seen at all, just disappeared.
A poisoning by insecticide affects the adult bees mainly. It looks like as described.  Mainly the foraging force writhing out front; but a good cluster of young bees and nice healthy brood within. Mass of dead outside, thriving community inside. 
A poisoning by herbicide affects the brood mainly. The poison is in the pollen being fed to delicate larvae. The adults are not much affected.  It presents as a chronic condition. Stagnant growth, dwindling colony, patchy brood, and bees that just look and behave awkwardly. Strong recovery is seen by shaking the colony into a box onto new combs.  Melt down the contaminated combs.

[The15thMember]

A virus looks like CCD, a collapse of the colony.  There may be a queen and a handful of bees left with large abandoned patches of brood. Dead bees may be a carpet out front or not seen at all, just disappeared.
A poisoning by insecticide affects the adult bees mainly. It looks like as described.  Mainly the foraging force writhing out front; but a good cluster of young bees and nice healthy brood within. Mass of dead outside, thriving community inside. 
A poisoning by herbicide affects the brood mainly. The poison is in the pollen being fed to delicate larvae. The adults are not much affected.  It presents as a chronic condition. Stagnant growth, dwindling colony, patchy brood, and bees that just look and behave awkwardly. Strong recovery is seen by shaking the colony into a box onto new combs.  Melt down the contaminated combs.

Great information as always, HP.

[Beeboy01]

I spent some time observing the hives today, not opening them, just watching the flight patterns and listening to them. I can smell honey being cured and there was some orientation flights in the afternoon so I'm a little more optimistic about their survival. I'm leaning to a poisoning of the field bees but need to research if the county sprayed for mosquitoes while I was gone. It's a long shot and the last time I talked to them a few years ago they said the poison that's  used dissipates quickly and shouldn't be harmful to bees.
    A virus could of caused the kill but the mite load in the hives should be minimal. I hit the hives with six OAV treatments over 20 days in February and had almost no mite drop during the treatment time. When I get a chance I'll do a mite count on a couple of the hives.
  I'll try to get into the hives this week for a full inspection and check for queen cells.
Thanks everybody for the help and input. I'll update if find anything out of sorts or if they are looking better.
   

[Beeboy01]

Here's a follow up, I picked up about a dozen freshly dead bees from out in front of the hives and inspected them with a magnifying glass. They all had their proboscis sticking out and one bee was still twitching. It's weird, I crush bees when doing an inspection with no regrets but felt sorry for that one bee. Anyways it's defiantly a poisoning of the field bees, no mites were seen on the dead ones and there was only one or two mite dropped on the trays under the screened bottom boards after 24 hours. I usually see a daily drop of around three to five mites with my hives so it's within my operating parameters.
   I checked the local Volusia county mosquito control web site and the spraying map showed no spraying has occurred over the last month so that's not where the problem came from. There is a large commercial plant nursery about 1 1/2 miles from my yard along with a few small orchards in the area so I can't pinpoint where it came from. I'm loosing about twenty bees out front each day so whatever caused the major die off earlier on has dissipated.
  My next move is to sweep up or wash away whatever dead bees still remain out in front of the hives in case there is a residual poison present in their bodies.
Thanks again all.     

[TheHoneyPump]

Sounds like you got it figured
Have a great summer!

[Beeboy01]

I just finished a complete inspection of the hives and most of them are a write off with no brood or queen signs. Only one hive had queen cells so it looks like the hives are pretty much a total loss. Need to report this to the bee inspector and track down some bees.
Bummer !!!

[The15thMember]

I just finished a complete inspection of the hives and most of them are a write off with no brood or queen signs. Only one hive had queen cells so it looks like the hives are pretty much a total loss. Need to report this to the bee inspector and track down some bees.
Bummer !!!

Oh what a shame!  Sorry to hear that.    Hopefully the bee inspector can help you figure out what happened. 

[Beeboy01]

It's water under the bridge now. Going to recoup, weed out some older equipment, get some nucs and fire the yard back up. No use looking back it's already happened and we can't turn back time. Still sitting on plenty of honey from last year so my sweet tooth is covered. In the meantime I plan to get some boating and fishing in. Back before Christmas I hauled my 21 foot CC boat out of storage, put new tires on the trailer, fired her up and cleaned about 3 years of dirt and grime off of her. Thanks to Covid and a bum knee I let her sit for a good 3 years.  Now I'm am ready for some boating and fishing. She's a flat bottomed Maine Down Easter lobster work boat I've had for about 25 years and is a good friend.
  Waiting for a call back from the bee inspector, maybe she would have a clue as to where the poison came from but that's a long shot.

[Beeboy01]

Well here's a update. After a long talk with the bee inspector we were able to determine that my hives have Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus. I spent some time researching IAPV and it looks like it's highly contagious between hives because of drifting and when it is this advanced there isn't any real hope for the yard to recover. Since I still have active hives that are contagious it doesn't make sense to bring fresh hives into my bee yard and risk the almost certain infection and loss of the new hives. Both my gut and logic is telling me to shut down my yard till the virus runs it's course. It's a hard decision but I'm not replacing the lost hives this year even though I'm expecting to loose all the hives in the yard. Right now I'm not even sure if the boxes and frames are salvageable for next year.

[Ben Framed]

Beeboy I am not disputing your inspector. They see and hear many problems with bees. But still, it might not be a bad idea if she where to send samples in for testing before a hard conclusion is made? Just food for thought.

Now I'm am ready for some boating and fishing. She's a flat bottomed Maine Down Easter lobster work boat I've had for about 25 years and is a good friend.

I like that idea Beeboy01, to bad I live so far from you!       That sounds like 'live action' in the works!  Have a great time and take plenty of pictures and share your experiences with us in the "OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES FORUM"! Looking forward to it!



Phillip

[van from Arkansas]

I hear/see the word "virus" frequently as to genesis of a given bee issue.  This stands to reason as there are many different virus species that mimic common negative bees issues.  So like I said, the word "virus" appears a lot.

The Israeli virus is serious.  I am surprised the inspector was not on site with instructions and samples taken.  Nor was guidance given by the inspector, at least not in the above post to identify by easy means, testing to rule out poison as a factor.  Test such as exposing healthy bees to dead or dying bees in a confined area, such as a vented jar, to determine if an external poison (sevin dust)  toxin, is transferable.  This is easily determined by quick paralysis to healthy bees after dead bees are in confined contact.  This test is dependent on time due to degradation of a toxin over time as toxins decrease in activity from; hours (pyrethrin) days (sevin) to weeks  (bifenthrin) to years (DDT.)

So, from the above post, i cannot accurately determine a cause, rather several possibilities.  Some not discussed.

Finally so sorry for the loss of bees.  May your drag sing on your fishing reel and your plate be full with filet.