Beekeeping Class Has Begun

[Terri Yaki]

First class was Feb 21 and has a lot more people in it than I anticipated. I'll have to find out how many exactly but off the cuff, I'd guess 50+-. It will be interesting to see how many make how many classes and how many drop out along the way. I know that I am fortunate in that I am older (a dreadful boomer), who worked all my life and saved up for retirement and I can afford such luxuries but many others do not have the money to invest in the hobby and I expect that some will throw in the towel when they figure out how much is needed up front.

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut and it looks like this might be the case for me on this...I found a nuc from a local beekeeper through the club's website for a start. To make it nicer, she is one of the two instructors of the classes. To make it even better, we apparently get a mentor as part of the class and she is my mentor. Could it get any better? But then if I kill her bees, it won't look good.

My goal(s) for my first year is(are) to buy one nuc, catch a swarm and have both survive the winter. If I don't have a swarm by the time one is needed to have a healthy colony to survive a winter, I'll buy another. My only knowledge thus far has come from here, my neighbor's involvement and reading on Reddit. Oh, and watching some vids on youtube. Then I have a class every month to walk us through the current phase. I passively search the used book store for books but thus far, they have had none. From what I have absorbed thus far, I view my goals as a good, doable challenge but I understand that I'll be lucky if I succeed. If I have two going into winter and none coming out, I'll be disappointed. I have confidence that my available time, you folks here, the class, and my mentor will get me through. I'm not too bad at following directions when I know that I am clueless. Doing things my own way comes in further down the road.

[Kathyp]

Have fun!  Many years ago I went to a class as I was starting and it was fun to meet like minded people.  As with all things, some of what you learn will work for you, and some won't, but you can never intake too much info 

[The15thMember]

I think it sounds like you are off to great start!  And I think your goals for your first year are spot on. 

[Terri Yaki]

Class #2 was last night and I'm on top this one for the most part. I do have a couple of questions. 1) They said that nucs and packages should be fed pollen and 2) be treated for mites. I could see treating a package from a foreign grower for mites but wonder about these locally raised bees. And this grower is one of the instructors in the class and I believe is a prudent beekeeper. I could see maybe feeding pollen as insurance but does feeding them if they don't need it make them lazy and stop them from foraging?

[The15thMember]

In my experience bees prefer to forage over being fed anything artificial.  So if you were feeding honey or real pollen, they might take that over foraging or while foraging, but sugar water or pollen sub will be ignored if real flowers are blooming.  (And I don't really see taking easily accessible food of equal or better quality as "being lazy" so much as "being efficient".  ) 

In my area we have pollen flow year round, so I have never needed to feed my bees pollen or pollen sub, even when I had packages.  But pollen is critical for colonies to grow, because without it they cannot feed brood, so if in your area there isn't pollen coming in early in the year, it may be necessary to feed a package or nuc pollen. 

As far as treating goes, that's kind of up to you.  A package is a really good time to treat, since they don't have any brood for mites to hide in, and like you said, a commercial package from a big producer should probably be treated, but I'd be far less concerned with a small local producer.  A nuc already has brood, so I'd be less inclined to just hit them with a treatment for the sake of it.  I bought my first two packages from a local organic-treatments-only operation, and I didn't treat them until the fall (after I had one colony abscond).  What I'd probably do if I were you, is just give them a couple weeks to get settled, and then do an alcohol wash or a sugar roll and see what their counts look like, rather than just throwing a treatment on them when you aren't sure if they really need it.                 

[Terri Yaki]

I'm not lazy, I'm efficient. LOL, I like that line. What would be the costs and downside to just treating for mites vs an alcohol wash? Keep in mind, I have not yet handled bees and might add that I feel a little uneasy about performing a mite wash, unless they give us a demonstration as part of our class. And should I buy those strips ahead of time so I have them in stock or do they have a short shelf life and I should wait?

[Michael Bush]

I no longer treat at all nor do I count mites, but I think IF you are going to treat, it's most important that you measure the mites AFTER you treat.  If you want to do a before AND after that's fine, but the Varroa have built resistance to most of the treatments and you don't measure AFTER you won't know if the treatment did anything.  So if you are going to treat all the time, you should measure afterwards to see if the mites are resistant.

"All the boring and soul-destroying work of counting mites on sticky boards, killing brood with liquid nitrogen, watching bees groom each other, and measuring brood hormone levels---all done in thousands of replications---will someday be seen as a colossal waste of time when we finally learn to let the Varroa mites do these things for us." --Kirk Webster, What's missing from the current discussion and work related to bees that's preventing us from making good progress.

https://kirkwebster.com/index.php/whats-missing-from-the-current-discussion-and-work-related-to-bees-thats-preventing-us-from-making-good-progress

https://bushfarms.com/beesnotreatments.htm

[The15thMember]

What would be the costs and downside to just treating for mites vs an alcohol wash? Keep in mind, I have not yet handled bees and might add that I feel a little uneasy about performing a mite wash, unless they give us a demonstration as part of our class. 

I personally do sugar rolls, but neither one is difficult.  For a sugar roll you just need a jar with a mesh lid, a basin or bucket, a paper plate, and some powdered sugar.  As far as I know, the only thing different with the alcohol wash is you need isopropyl alcohol instead of powdered sugar.  The most challenging part for a newbee is getting the bees off the frame, but as long as the colony isn't aggravated, it's not hard at all.   

And should I buy those strips ahead of time so I have them in stock or do they have a short shelf life and I should wait?

   
I personally wouldn't, because there are a lot of treatment options out there, and you'll need to look at what product you'd like to use and what your are comfortable with.  Like, if you are referring to Apivar, I'm personally not comfortable using those kinds of synthetic hard chemical treatments.  Some have a short shelf life and some have a little longer, but you also don't know you'll need to or want to treat yet (or ever!), and most treatments are kind of pricey.             

[NigelP]

I think a lot of treat/no treat results are very dependant on your local microclimate and that generic advice is not particularly good for everyone.
In my area of the UK, temperate climate, all the non treaters have lost most of their hives and the few surviving are heart breaking small and look quite sick. I treat, check before and afterwards and have huge thriving colonies.
Resistance to miticides is energetically expensive to the varroa, and is only perpetuated when the varroa are in constant exposure to the miticide. Otherwise the resistance genes are soon lost.  I do a 3 year cycle of 1 miticide then switch to another for 3 years. This work for me in my microclimate. Might be a good idea to find what works for you in your area as advice from different areas and different countries (using different strains of bees) might not be applicable to you.

[The15thMember]

I think a lot of treat/no treat results are very dependant on your local microclimate and that generic advice is not particularly good for everyone.

I really agree with this statement.  I feel like so much of a beekeeper's ability to treat or not treat depends on the robustness of the local environment.  Not only if others are treating or not, but the general vitality of the local ecosystem affects the hive so much, and I think the bees' general health has a lot to do with their ability to handle varroa on their own or not.   

[Terri Yaki]

Today I went to my mentor's apiary and we worked through about ten hives, including the nuc that has my name on it. We went all through most of them but only fed a couple. He was surprised to find drones and drone brood this early and he rotated about four of them top to bottom for reasons that you folks probably already know. We found some queens but not all. Eggs, larvae and capped brood in all hives plus capped honey. He uses about a 3" spacer up top for feeding with about 1/4" mesh on top of the frames. I took a sting on my hand because I flinched and went for it when it landed. It left the stinger and right now I'm a little sore there but nothing big, we'll see what tomorrow brings. After that one, I just let them check me out and leave. His bees pooped all over my prized 1991 S-15 Jimmy. 

[Ben Framed]

I took a sting on my hand because I flinched and went for it when it landed. It left the stinger and right now I'm a little sore there but nothing big, we'll see what tomorrow brings.

Usually my first sting or two of the season I will get a little swelling. This year so far that is not the case. I took one on the forehead just above the right eye yesterday, one of the arm, as well as one on the stomach area. In the least expected a swollen eye. Im glad to report no more than what appeared as a mosquito whelp was the result. Usually after my first few stings of the new season, I have little problems. I was glad for the good results in the beginning of this season.

[Terri Yaki]

Today's class was supposed to be a lesson at my mentor's apiary on splitting hives. It turned out to be a lesson on knowing when is not a good day to pester the bees. We ended up removing the top insulation and feeding spacers on several of the hives and putting the summer top covers on. He wasn't as quick to use smoke as I am/would be but that might be because he is experienced in the matter. My question is, why not just smoke them from the start? They do move down into the hive right away and make working on the top less hazardous. It was cool enough that none of the bees were flying yet. He said he's going to give it another go tomorrow and I intend to attend.

[The15thMember]

I always smoke from the start.  I use the Altmiller smoking method, invented by our very own Beemaster2.    You smoke in the entrance or up under the bottom board (if it's screened), then wait 10 minutes, then smoke again, wait 30 seconds, and then open them up.  This gives the smoke a chance to move throughout the whole colony and disrupts the pheromones that the bees use to communicate when attacking as a group.  I don't smoke a hive from the top to start, because I work my boxes in reverse order, and I don't want to drive all the bees down into the bottom box and have it be really full. 

If it's not flying weather, bees are generally not happy about a hive being opened.  If all the foragers are all at home, they will just be hanging around not doing anything, and they quickly switch to guard duty if the hive is disturbed. 

[Ben Framed]

My question is, why not just smoke them from the start?

I do.