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Author Topic: Robbers ?  (Read 3569 times)

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2023, 12:00:39 am »
I realized since only animal and I have been talking for most of the afternoon and evening, we have some questions buried in the back and forth.  For those in animal's general area: What is the expected size of a wintering colony?  How much honey is recommended for the hive to overwinter?  And can animal expect another flow before the winter comes?    
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 01:13:21 pm by The15thMember »
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Offline animal

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2023, 01:02:52 am »
Uh . . . it sounds to me like whatever you are envisioning is just unnecessary ...  not really understanding what you are envisioning.  :grin:   


 :cheesy: No !!! You understand perfectly ! What I should have said is "thanks for saving me from going further down an unproductive rabbit hole :wink:
Quote from: The15thMember
Is it literally window screen that you are using?  Basically I'm wonder what would happen if you set a jar on the screen.  Would it tear the screen?

Would have to cut one screen out, and weight would cause it to sag. The inner cover is a 3/4" wide x 3/4" thick  frame with aluminum window screen towards bees, fiberglass towards top ..  some places on the fiberglass side is double thickness and has stitches to cause the top layer to raise up in places to form funnel shaped openings that lead to slits cut in the under layer.
When a beetle goes into the funnel, the slit opens. As the beetle goes through the slit, it closes.. trapping him between the aluminum and fiberglass screens.
It was meant to work with a vented lid. If beetles went through the vent, they would have the choice between leaving or getting caught between the screens. The lid is a whole 'nuther story and only partially built. (a temporary lid is on the hive) The screen only caught 3 beetles over the last week and they died before getting out. The little ants partially disassembled what was left of  them yesterday or today.

so ... ummm .... unnecessary .....  :embarassed: but technically it worked .... like the wheels ... and adjustable legs
The lid is really embarrassing  :wink: but I still think it'll work...
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2023, 01:12:54 pm »
Uh . . . it sounds to me like whatever you are envisioning is just unnecessary ...  not really understanding what you are envisioning.  :grin:   


 :cheesy: No !!! You understand perfectly ! What I should have said is "thanks for saving me from going further down an unproductive rabbit hole :wink:
Quote from: The15thMember
Is it literally window screen that you are using?  Basically I'm wonder what would happen if you set a jar on the screen.  Would it tear the screen?

Would have to cut one screen out, and weight would cause it to sag. The inner cover is a 3/4" wide x 3/4" thick  frame with aluminum window screen towards bees, fiberglass towards top ..  some places on the fiberglass side is double thickness and has stitches to cause the top layer to raise up in places to form funnel shaped openings that lead to slits cut in the under layer.
When a beetle goes into the funnel, the slit opens. As the beetle goes through the slit, it closes.. trapping him between the aluminum and fiberglass screens.
It was meant to work with a vented lid. If beetles went through the vent, they would have the choice between leaving or getting caught between the screens. The lid is a whole 'nuther story and only partially built. (a temporary lid is on the hive) The screen only caught 3 beetles over the last week and they died before getting out. The little ants partially disassembled what was left of  them yesterday or today.

so ... ummm .... unnecessary .....  :embarassed: but technically it worked .... like the wheels ... and adjustable legs
The lid is really embarrassing  :wink: but I still think it'll work...
I don't think it's embarrassing at all!  I think it's cool that your brain works like that, because mine absolutely does not, and your building skills make you a very self-sufficient and adaptive beekeeper, which is a huge asset!  Once you pair your building knowledge with some bee biology and behavior knowledge, you will be unstoppable!  And that will certainly come with experience.  I mean for crying out loud, you are a first year beekeeper who went into this entirely blind, and look how far you have come already!  I feel like I'm using an inordinate about of exclamation points, but I'm seriously impressed with you, animal.  As I've said before, you are clearly a natural.   :happy:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 01:33:38 pm by The15thMember »
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline animal

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2023, 11:26:38 pm »
It's awfully nice of you to say such things, but the truth of the matter is that I'm still woefully ignorant of most things "bee" and don't see myself as a beekeeper. Seems to me that someone would have to demonstrate that they could successfully keep a couple of colonies healthy throughout a couple of seasons before they were even a hobbyist at beekeeping. I've got less than three months dealing with a salvaged colony that has been on the edge of dying off the whole time. I think I am learning, though; and your encouragement is much appreciated.
Beekeeping is radically different than anything I've ever dealt with. The information about it is organized differently than anything I've ever cared to deal with, and doesn't fit the way I think; so to me, it's much harder than physics or engineering. Making a beetle trap is taking a break from the hard part of beekeeping. I'd like to see things such as a formula to give the entrance size for the hive based on temperature, humidity, interior volume, number of bees , etc.. (or whatever variables would be relevant) For me, it's hard to make sense of the bee stuff ...or "normal" life things, for that matter ... For instance : for the most part, grocery stores should be organized by chemical composition and structure .. the bread, peanut butter, and jelly should not be next to each other !!

To me, doing impractical or silly stuff is by it's nature, embarrassing; but it's also fun ... and making something new or different to do a job is also fun. When the kids were younger, I could avoid the embarrassment entirely by saying I was doing whatever silly project of the time for them ... blame the kids ... or the wife ... but the truth was, I was having fun too.
As far as this site goes : until I know more about bees, the best I can probably do to contribute is give others a chance to chuckle at some of my silliness. .. while I get useful information from them. :smile:
Anyway, thanks to you and others that have helped me.
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Online Michael Bush

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2023, 06:51:35 am »
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline jimineycricket

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2023, 11:27:53 am »
@ animal, take a look at this web site, it might give you some ideas:  https://www.michiganbees.org/Beekeepers-Workshop
 jimmy
jimmy

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2023, 01:11:55 pm »
I realized since only animal and I have been talking for most of the afternoon and evening, we have some questions buried in the back and forth.  For those in animal's general area: What is the expected size of a wintering colony?  How much honey is recommended for the hive to overwinter?  And can animal expect another flow before the winter comes?

Animal, I agree with Reagan that the colony needs a healthy amount of bees going into winter.. Her descriptions are right in line with good beekeeping practices.  My area, which is in zone 7 is the same growing zone as Reagan's even though she lives several states to the east of me. What she does and suggested works very well for her apiary. She suggest forty pounds of honey for a robust sized winter colony.

Now, if you feel the bees do not have enough honey going into winter, then you can always feed. There are several methods available for this as well. Some beekeepers open feed from a distance in the Fall for a quick build up in food. Some feed by the two gallon upside down bucket on top, with the lid facing down method, which is placed on the top of the hive with a small hole drilled in the hive top and a small holes drilled into the bucket lid which works similar to a boardman feeder without the fear of robbing. I personally like another choice, the mountain camp method of feeding in the winter months here at my location.

You live probably 150-200 miles south of me which puts you in a different growing zone. Even though I am further North than you, my bees will still fly a lot during the winter months on days of sunshine when temperatures reach the proper degrees for flying, which requires food for energy just as being clustered requires food for energy to stay warm. Mountain camp not only provides this food and energy, but secondly an insulation barrier over the top of the cluster which stands to reason helps on the single digit and teen days and nights, and thirdly works well as a moisture barrier with the pure sugar doing a cracker jack job of absorbing moisture in the hive ..  A win, win, win in my opinion for my location...

Phillip
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 01:45:10 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2023, 01:51:49 pm »
Animal, I agree with Reagan that the colony needs a healthy amount of bees going into winter.. Her descriptions are right in line with good beekeeping practices.  My area, which is in zone 7 is the same growing zone as Reagan's even though she lives several states to the east of me. What she does and suggested works very well for her apiary. She suggest forty pounds of honey for a robust sized winter colony.

Now, if you feel the bees do not have enough honey going into winter, then you can always feed. There are several methods available for this as well. Some beekeepers open feed from a distance in the Fall for a quick build up in food. Some feed by the two gallon upside down bucket on top, with the lid facing down method, which is placed on the top of the hive with a small hole drilled in the hive top and a small holes drilled into the bucket lid which works similar to a boardman feeder without the fear of robbing. I personally like another choice, the mountain camp method of feeding in the winter months here at my location.

You live probably 150-200 miles south of me which puts you in a different growing zone. Even though I am further North than you, my bees will still fly a lot during the winter months on days of sunshine when temperatures reach the proper degrees for flying, which requires food for energy just as being clustered requires food for energy to stay warm. Mountain camp not only provides this food and energy, but secondly an insulation barrier over the top of the cluster which stands to reason helps on the single digit and teen days and nights, and thirdly works well as a moisture barrier with the pure sugar doing a cracker jack job of absorbing moisture in the hive ..  A win, win, win in my opinion for my location...

Phillip
Thanks a lot, Phillip; that is very helpful. 

Animal, I think it would be wise to do an inspection of this colony so we have a baseline for where they are now, versus where they should be going into winter.  It would be useful to know how many frames have walking adult bees on them, how many frames they have fully drawn, and how many frames of brood, pollen, and honey/nectar they have right now. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline animal

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2023, 11:26:04 pm »
Inspection: will do, but I won't be able to for a couple of days.
Quick glance in top and bottom .... no additional dead bees, no live beetles. Haven't seen any of the bees that look like they don't belong this morning or afternoon, just the "chill" ones I'm used to. I don't know exactly how to describe them. I had said aggressive, but that's not really the right word .. flying fast orbits around the hive with sudden stops in mid air (usually in front of the entrance) .. quick landings and fast run inside... That ... as opposed to ... a more direct approach, relaxed landing, loitering a bit on the porch, maybe getting a little grooming by others on the porch, etc.

Anyway, pretty sure the robbers were few and fenced in time... and poison was the real problem.

If they don't bulk up their numbers enough by winter, what do you think about going vertical with them? Was thinking of turning 2 deeps (or more) into a nuc size by filling in sides with insulation board. Leave brood in bottom and put honey frames in the upper box(s). So when they move to feed, they will be above the heat generated by the masses rather than moving off to the colder sides.
A heater could be done, for that matter. (pretty much mostly done already)
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2023, 11:38:53 pm »
"If they don't bulk up their numbers enough by winter,"

If the queen is a good queen and no illness involved in the colony, you can ramp up the numbers by feeding pollen sub-plus sugar water. I would imagine the flow is over in your area? Both of the mentioned will stimulate the hive to reproduce..

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.


Offline The15thMember

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2023, 11:58:52 pm »
"If they don't bulk up their numbers enough by winter,"

If the queen is a good queen and no illness involved in the colony, you can ramp up the numbers by feeding pollen sub-plus sugar water. I would imagine the flow is over in your area? Both of the mentioned will stimulate the hive to reproduce..

Phillip
This is what I was talking about before, animal.  Winter feeding may be necessary for this colony, but at this point the goal is to artificially increase their numbers so there are enough bees to keep the colony alive and warm.  If they aren't bringing in any more nectar, they will need syrup to simulate a flow (I'd imagine 1:1 syrup would be best for this), and if they aren't bringing in pollen, you'll need to feed them pollen substitute (which I've never done before, since I have pollen coming in all flying season). 

If they don't bulk up by winter, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.  But the more bees, the better their chances, so the goal right now is to make bees.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline animal

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2023, 12:04:56 am »
they are bringing in pollen  ... nectar? dunno  but suspect yes ... one dropped a roughly triangular piece of packed pollen on the landing board ... tasted it .. it was sweet .. and grainy, of course

Winter feeding .. got that .. Was asking if the pollen Ben said to feed in addition to sugar water (to get queenie burping out babies) is the product I linked to ..
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2023, 12:19:16 am »
I have had very good luck with Ultra Bee Pollen Substitute. This was recommended to me by TheHoneyPump as well as others..

I am not sure what the protein content is. I just used the stuff with good results when it was needed in Fall and winter of my first season.. I overwintered 5, 5 frame nucs. By Spring the little Nucs were busting at the seams with bees! I learned the nuc build up stuff from David at Barnyard Bees as well as Joe May, and others here at Beemaster...

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2023, 12:22:24 am »
PS, I open fed Pollen Substitute.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline animal

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2023, 12:30:00 am »
Thanks Ben ...

was just reading about the chemical make-up of nectars preferred by bees and that of pollen. When I saw taurine in the nectar and protein in pollen ... sounds like protein powder and RedBull   :cheesy:
No, I wouldn't feed them that .... unless ya'll say it works   :smile:
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Offline animal

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2023, 12:44:56 am »
PS, I open fed Pollen Substitute.

Phillip
by "open feed" ... put a tray out by the water and rocks dish ? I have that about 6 feet from the hive.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2023, 06:43:00 am »
I did not measure but I open fed powered pollen substitute 'about' 100 feet away from the closest hive.. If there is no pollen coming in, they will find it..

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline animal

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2023, 09:34:51 am »
Wow... amazing little creatures. thanks ...  got some Ultra bee coming now
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Robbers ?
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2023, 02:18:34 pm »
Good for you. I really enjoy watching the bees coming in for the pollen substitute. 
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

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