vinegar steam for varroa control

[challenger]

I have read about using a 25% solution of vinegar and blowing the steam from the mixture into the hive for varroa control. I keep my hives on screen bottom boards and they sit on stands that allow me to reach under them. I am wondering if I were to just get a large pot of boiling solution and hold the steaming pot under each hive if this would be effective?
Last years application of a thymol/eucaplyptus oil didn't seem very effective. I did this by soaking shop towels in the mixture and wringing them out and placed them on each hive inside the inner cover for 3-6 day treatments.
Thanks-Howard

[wfuavenger]

I would love to read that information. I doubt that it would have much effect except to make the bees upset.... But, Oxalic acid is an acid like vinegar (which is weaker).

[sarafina]

OA Dribble

I did the oxyalic dribble this year and have been very pleased with the results and no vaporizer to buy and simple to apply.  Check out the sub forum on disease and pest control - there is a video of someone doing the oxyalic acid dribble.  I bought my acid off ebay and it is cheap - all you need is a scale to weigh it up a jar to mix it in and a large syringe.  I used a turkey baster but I don't recommend it because it drips too bad out the end.  I bought a large syringe for injecting turkeys for next year and it even has the ml marked on the side (less than $5).

[Finski]

I have read about using a 25% solution of vinegar and blowing the steam from the mixture into the hive for varroa control.

I have read a lot of varroa control but I cannot find this in the catalogue of recommended varroa treatmenst. I may find at least 20 good method but not this.  25% acetic acid sounds very stong.

It seems that challenger wants to kill his bees . I think that gasoline is the easiest way.

[challenger]

Finsky-what kind of comment is, "I think Challenger wants to kill his bees"???
Why would I inquire about the vinegar method before using it if I wanted to kill my bees. Is the cold weather in Finland effecting your mood? Use your head man.

[Hemlock]

There is a guy in our club who has the vinegar machine.  It does not use vinegar steam but a warm atomized mist.  Put a tube in a hive and run the machine for 30 seconds.  He claims the varroa drop off en masse.  The machine is a truck mounted unit and costs about 2 thousand dollars and up.

Importantly is that the machine does not use 'bought at the store' vinegar which is only 5% vinegar.  It uses the commercial grade vinegar which is much, much higher.

[challenger]

"Importantly is that the machine does not use 'bought at the store' vinegar which is only 5% vinegar.  It uses the commercial grade vinegar which is much, much higher."


Well I bet that wipes out every bee in the State.

[Hemlock]

The guy swears by it. He runs 160 hives and uses it on all of them.  I think that's why each hive only gets 30 seconds of mist.  He told me the vinegar is ONLY warmed and not boiled.  There was a reason it could not be boiled but I can't recall what it was.  I won't see him again until the April meeting but I can get more info from him then if you want me to.

[Finski]

.
And what ever odd someone offers, hobbiest are mad running after.
Use your brains! Varroa is serious thing.

The researches get wages that they find out what is good method to do medication.

In Europa European Union varroa Group has done 10 years work to select best methods.
Results are splended.  The best stuffs are formic acid, thymol based and oxalic acid.

[Bee Happy]

I have read about using a 25% solution of vinegar and blowing the steam from the mixture into the hive for varroa control.

I have read a lot of varroa control but I cannot find this in the catalogue of recommended varroa treatmenst. I may find at least 20 good method but not this.  25% acetic acid sounds very stong.

It seems that challenger wants to kill his bees . I think that gasoline is the easiest way.

Actually finski, vinegar begins at 5% acetic acid so diluting that to 25% you get something like 1.25% acetic acid - I didn't get this from a solid calculation, just an eyeball, it may be a little more or a little less, but I'd be surprised if it came to 2% acetic acid at that dilution.

[Finski]

Actually finski, vinegar begins at 5% acetic acid so diluting that to 25% you get something like 1.25% acetic acid -

I have never met "this kind of information! 25% is actually 1,25%". The right expression is 1,25% vinegar.

[Bee Happy]

no, =.0125(roughly) acetic acid - the instructions were 25% vinegar, which begins as 5% acetic acid (unless it is that higher concentration stuff named above) 100ml (5% usp vinegar) + 300ml water ~ 1.25% actual acetic acid

[Finski]

.
I tried to find from google acetic acid as varroa treatment stuff, how it is used but I did not found anything.

Thanks for nice calculations!

[Bee Happy]

I was only going over the dilution, I honestly couldn't tell you what the dilution of oxalic acid is (it must have only been approved for bees in the US in the last couple years, as one of the books I studied on published within the last 3 or 4 still has it listed as unapproved).
Another thing I did read on beekeeping, and it probably applies to anything is that many of the advances come from hobbyists who are willing to try new things (Within reasonable boundaries, of course) to address new problems.

[Finski]

 that many of the advances come from hobbyists who are willing to try new things

What are new things?   Varroa methods demand so much that tests are out of hobbiest ability.

The best of all is the cows unine in India .

[Tucker1]

Finski:  I've tried to get some of that cow's stuff that you suggested, but they won't allow it into this country without a special permit. Getting stuff from India into the US is difficult.  Is stuff from local cows good enough?  :-D :-D :-D

(Now I know where my Finish Aunt picked up her wonderful sense of humor !! ;) )

Regards,
Tucker1

[Bee Happy]

 that many of the advances come from hobbyists who are willing to try new things

What are new things?   Varroa methods demand so much that tests are out of hobbiest ability.

The best of all is the cows unine in India .

Cow pee is a little beyond my willingness to experiment, but I'm certain that when innovations come from a hobbyist they report success at bee meetings, of course, innovation is often met with resistance; so the local association will (casually) monitor the experimeter's success. Assuming the success is positive,it might be adapted by other members of the association (possibly passed along online) maybe the innovator will be recognised. Then it is noticed by or forwarded to researchers who can run more controlled experiments; verifying or repudiating the results. It sounds like vinegar treatment is in the pre-official test stages, catching on among hobby beekeepers, to be later confirmed as a good practice in good standing, or exposing some hidden detriment for long terms that a casual observer may not catch.
Although what chemical company would want to market vinegar as a varroa treatment I dont know, since it can't be patented.

If you want to say vinegar is not an offical treatment I was never in disagreement with you. Only discussing the dilution (incedentally I looked up the acidity of acetic acid vs oxalic acid and the acetic acid is slightly stronger).

[Finski]

  Is stuff from local cows good enough?  :-D :-D :-D

You know surely only after trying.

 

[annette]

Don't put down the cow's urine, it saved my life while I was in India back in the 70's.

[Robo]

First of all,  if you boil a pot of vinegar,  isn't the steam just pure water?  I see no benefit of that to the bees.

Secondly, using acetic acid is not something new.  The "Cyclone" has been around for many years and is advertised regularly in the bee journals.

If you do a search on vinegar, you will find a few posts where it has been discussed.  
Here is one to start with -> http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=7326.45

I think you will come to the same frustrating conclusions that I did.

1.  There is no real data available, only people that love it and swear by it.  These are the same folks that have spend $600.  If I spent that much I would lean towards it working too,  right?

2.  If there is merit to acetic acid (which I have no bias either way to),  then why does it take a $600 piece of equipment to apply it,  when the other acids can be applied with methods that cost nearly nothing.  I've tried to understand the application method to see if I could build one, all those that tout it are very tight lipped......