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Author Topic: Lots of honey, no bees  (Read 4403 times)

Offline lilprincess

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Lots of honey, no bees
« on: February 19, 2018, 12:34:51 pm »
Just checked on the bees to give them some sugar. New England has had inconsistent weather this year and I wanted to check them and get them some sugar in case they were hungry. What I found surprised me. The 10" and 8" frames were almost full. And there were almost no bees. When I checked them in the fall/early winter I heard bees as I put the wind break around the hive. We picked up all the boxes today and even at the bottom board there were maybe 150 dead bees. Where did they go? What did I do wrong?

The wind break left ventilation, there was no moisture build up, no signs of mice or disease....

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2018, 12:38:41 pm »
Queen died and what was left begged their way into another hive.  Maybe they swarmed and perished.
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Offline lilprincess

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2018, 01:09:34 pm »
Quote from: Acebird on February 19, 2018, 12:38:41 pm
Queen died and what was left begged their way into another hive.  Maybe they swarmed and perished.
I wouldn't have thought a swarm, based on the massive amount of honey left. But with the numbers down maybe. Ugh. It was a new queen last spring.

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Offline iddee

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 01:28:22 pm »
Sounds like varroa. Did you do mite counts and/or treat in the fall?
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Offline lilprincess

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 01:28:54 pm »
Quote from: iddee on February 19, 2018, 01:28:22 pm
Sounds like varroa. Did you do mite counts and/or treat in the fall?
No evidence of mites now or in the fall.


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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 01:29:10 pm »
Did varroa mite strike again?  The mite will weaken the bees, cause mortality such as you described.  I am not saying mites kill your bees, I am suggesting a possible cause.
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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 01:31:50 pm »
Princess would you please describe ?no evidence?.  As Iddee said, did you do a mite count?  You will not see the mites, just the carnage.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 05:02:27 pm »
Quote from: lilprincess on February 19, 2018, 01:09:34 pm

I wouldn't have thought a swarm,

A swarm usually takes nectar not honey.  The honey is left for the remaining bees.  At any rate a hive that swarms in the fall is not the bees I want to keep.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 05:03:48 pm »
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on February 19, 2018, 01:31:50 pm
You will not see the mites, just the carnage.

If a hive was overcome with mites you will see frass.  It does not go away on its own.
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Offline eltalia

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 07:28:37 pm »
There is an attachment attributed to thos thread yet I see none... anyone?

Bill
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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 07:49:17 pm »
Quote from: Acebird on February 19, 2018, 05:03:48 pm
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on February 19, 2018, 01:31:50 pm
You will not see the mites, just the carnage.

If a hive was overcome with mites you will see frass.  It does not go away on its own.

Yes Ace, agreed, however I don?t think the average beek can recognize the tiny white clumps located close to the top of the cell.  You know exactly what to look for as your eyes are trained, but not everyone can see with experienced eyes as yours.  Cheers, Buddy.
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Offline lilprincess

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 07:55:17 pm »
I can check again tomorrow. I'll get out the magnifying glass and take pictures. I want to be sure to learn from whatever happened.

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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 11:40:14 pm »
Princes,
I checked my late father in laws hives with my nephew today. He is taking over taking care of them. Most are doing real well. One had a small cluster of frozen bees in a corner over capped brood and lots of honey. There were also a light layer of dead bees in the bottom. There was only one mite in the bottom tray. I suspect this hive had disease and the numbers dwindled down below their ability to survive the cold temperatures.
Sounds like you might have the same problem.
Jim
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Offline iddee

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2018, 12:06:15 am »
Lilprincess, learn that you need to do mite counts. No other way will be sufficient. No mite counts, no knowledge of how many mites. You cannot depend on eyesight.

I'm just guessing, but my guess is you didn't do counts, and the bees died because of it.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2018, 12:53:11 pm »
Quote from: Van, Arkansas, USA on February 19, 2018, 07:49:17 pm
but not everyone can see with experienced eyes as yours.  Cheers, Buddy.
My eyes are horible but I can see the white specs in this frame pretty easily.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7be8046HwvldbGBv2
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Offline little john

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2018, 03:34:20 pm »
Quote from: lilprincess on February 19, 2018, 01:28:54 pm
No evidence of mites now or in the fall.

If you're able to, checkout: https://beeinformed.org/2016/03/08/why-did-my-honey-bees-die/  which describes your situation almost exactly.
There are some very good photographs on that page, see if the one which shows the mite crystals is similar to your brood comb - if so, that will confirm the culprit.  Sorry to hear of your loss.
LJ
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Offline lilprincess

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 03:46:11 pm »
Sounds like I learned a hard lesson about mites. :(

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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 04:03:34 pm »
I can see the mite crystals in there
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Offline lilprincess

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2018, 04:10:46 pm »
Quote from: bwallace23350 on February 20, 2018, 04:03:34 pm
I can see the mite crystals in there
Are they just the little spots in the close-up or are they filling some of the comb In the smaller pictire?

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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 04:14:18 pm »
They are the little white spots that look like white specks
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Offline little john

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2018, 04:42:44 pm »
If you enlarge the bottom photograph, they can be seen quite clearly:



LJ
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Offline lilprincess

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2018, 04:58:49 pm »
Quote from: little john on February 20, 2018, 04:42:44 pm
If you enlarge the bottom photograph, they can be seen quite clearly:



LJ
I know that one. But are they in the other comb picture too? I want to know how to ID them better.

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2018, 05:02:49 pm »
Look at the empty brood cells not the cells filled with pollen or honey.  There should be a large section of dark comb that is empty.  Frass will be on the sides and easy to see.  If there is a capped brood section look for pin holes in the cap.  The bees poke a hole in the cap to kill the brood and that kills the mites.

LJ, that doesn't look like brood come to me.  Those specks could be pollen.
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2018, 05:06:05 pm »
Learning a bit more about Varroa, as we don't have it here, Oz.
What are the white spots? I understand they indicate varroa has been there but what part of the process are they?
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2018, 05:10:20 pm »
Mite poop or pee.
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Offline yes2matt

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2018, 05:52:12 pm »
These are mites.

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Offline lilprincess

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2018, 05:55:35 pm »
Quote from: yes2matt on February 20, 2018, 05:52:12 pm
These are mites.

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Yep. Now to research the care and signs when the hive is going. Any good sites for that?

Someome talked about counting. How do you check the more count?

 Apparently mites were bad last year. Even seasoned bee keepers lost lots of hives. 

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Offline iddee

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2018, 06:04:08 pm »
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Offline little john

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2018, 06:56:14 pm »
Quote from: Acebird on February 20, 2018, 05:02:49 pm
LJ, that doesn't look like brood come to me.  Those specks could be pollen.

You don't see the similarity then ?



I've never seen pollen in a comb like that - it's either in the form of bee-bread, or ejected fine powder if pollen mites have attacked it.
LJ
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2018, 10:05:23 pm »
The problem is I can't tell if it is brood comb or honey comb from the photo.  Mites do not deposit frass in honey.  The bees would have cleaned the cell prior to depositing honey in the cell if there was brood in it prior.
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Offline lilprincess

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2018, 10:10:45 pm »
Quote from: Acebird on February 20, 2018, 10:05:23 pm
The problem is I can't tell if it is brood comb or honey comb from the photo.  Mites do not deposit frass in honey.  The bees would have cleaned the cell prior to depositing honey in the cell if there was brood in it prior.
All the dark comb is brood comb. The honey is in the upper corners of some of the bottom frames but mostly it's brood comb.

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Van, Arkansas, USA

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Re: Lots of honey, no bees
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2018, 10:38:30 pm »
In the close up pics, I can clearly see mites, many mites , little red critters.
Blessings
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