Feeding 2:1 vs 1:1 Syrup

[Terri Yaki]

As discussed in another thread, I am getting mixed thoughts on which to feed my bees right now and I am trying to figure out what the differences are. I don't know why but I thought that 1:1 is what was fed when we wanted the bees to make comb and 2:1 when we wanted them to store it for future use. It is logical that thicker syrup will set up quicker. Do the bees convert the 1:1 to wax or is it more like they just ingest it and it provides them energy to work? It is because it's handed to them on a silver platter, so to speak, and they don't have to expend energy to go and get it so they can do other things? And somewhere I think I picked up that stored honey is too think to ingest on its own and they need to water it down a bit before they an use it, is that right?

I can see the disadvantage of feeding 1:1 due to extended set times but are there any disadvantages to feeding 2:1?

[Ben Framed]

Terri, When feeding liquid, I have never fed anything but 1:1 no matter the season. But there again I am in The South. Though rough sometimes, my Winters are not as frigid as yours.  Further North, if I remember correctly, Ian Steppler in Canada feeds bees two to one just before winter. Which he gives them time to cure the food before the winter freeze. At least this is my understanding. I would not think your winters are nearly as harsh as his in Canada. As long as you have stores, you should be just fine. If not sure you can always use the trusted, tried, and true mountain camp method. It has not failed me.

[Michael Bush]

After 50 years of experimenting I settled on as thick a syrup as I can make and not have it crystalize.  That's 5:3.  That's the ONLY mixture of syrup I ever use.  The problem with thin syrup is that it doesn't keep. (and it weighs more).  The other problem with thin syrup in the fall is that it puts too much moisture in the colony.  You want all the syrup dried and capped by winter.

[Ben Framed]

Again location should be considered. My first season I fed throughout the winter with 1:1 as recommended to me by another beekeeper from Georgia due East of me yet several hundred miles. Our climate is similar. (David at BarnYard Bees). My five frame nukes survived and thrived. I didn?t loose even one.

I no longer feed any syrup. If I feel it necessary, I will feed Mountian camp as I stated earlier. It Not only provides a ready source of feed, but also Eliminates overhead moisture.  Love it for my location.

[Terri Yaki]

I'll look into Mountain Camp. Around here, the two big options are syrup as long as practicable then fondant when it gets too cold. I have also seen a little of sugar cake but don't know much about it. So, the bees don't use different concentrations for different things? i e convert 1:1 to wax and store 2:1.

[Michael Bush]

https://bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#drysugar

[Terri Yaki]

Thanks, Michael, that was good reading, all of it.

[The15thMember]

So the theory is that 1:1 is closer to the concentration of nectar, and thus may stimulate the bees to do all the things they would normally do during a nectar flow, build comb, raise brood, etc., hence the typical recommendation for 1:1 in the spring.  2:1 is much thicker than nectar, and so it puts the bees more into a "robbing" frame of mind, where they are just rapidly storing it instead of consuming it, plus it's easier for the bees to dry and cap, hence the recommendation for 2:1 in the fall.  As I said, that's the theory; whether that's the truth is another matter.   

I've heard lots of different opinions from lots of different beekeepers, and I'm inclined to think that the ratio doesn't really matter.  The bees will likely do whatever the season dictates that they do, regardless of the concentration of the syrup they are being fed.  The addition of food could keep a colony active and growing during a dearth, but I doubt the syrup strength itself factors in much in that case.  The only thing that would be a serious concern, imo, is having a lot of uncapped syrup in the colony going into winter. 

I don't have much experience feeding syrup.  I fed my packages 1:1 when I first got bees, and I also fed 1:1 one spring when our early nectar flow was wiped out by the late frost.  I used to feed 2:1 to colonies who were light going into winter, but for the past few years I've had enough extra honey to just donate a few frames to colonies who are in need.  My winters are too cold to feed liquid syrup, so I do make sugar balls (12 parts sugar to 1 part water makes the sugar the consistency of wet sand, pack into balls, and air dry on a cooling rack) as emergency winter feed, and there are usually one or two colonies that need them after the calendar turns.       

[Terri Yaki]

And when you feed sugar balls, where do you place them? Is on top of the inner cover suitable? I do regret not feeding the nuc that I split and I'm hoping that one of the other two hives will prove to have more than they need in a month or so and I can move some stores around.

[The15thMember]

I've never done that personally, but if you set one or two right on the hole in the inner cover I'd imagine it would be fine.  I use moisture quilts over the winter, and so I have not used inner covers over the winter in the past, although this year I actually am going to.  I did an experiment last year, leaving some hives' inner covers on underneath the quilts, and they wintered with significantly less honey eaten.  So if I have to feed any colonies sugar balls this year, that is what I'll be doing, placing the balls right on the hole in the cover.  Without the inner cover in place, I just set them right on the frames.  But I'm hoping this new setup will help prevent the need for emergency feed in the first place.   

[Terri Yaki]

My neighbor fed his fondant and he said that they just laid it on the inner cover around the center opening. I don't have much space in there without adding a shim of some sort but if I had to put fondant around that opening, I think that would be the easiest way to go.

[Ben Framed]

I use a shim when I see that mountain camp is in order.

[The15thMember]

Agreed, you will need some sort of shim or feeding rim.  I make my moisture quilts out of shallow supers by putting hardware cloth about halfway up in the box.  Then I fill the top half with pine shavings, and the space underneath enables me to feed. 

The thing that steered me away from fondant was exclusively price.  Granulated white sugar is way cheaper.  I prefer the sugar balls to mountain camp dry sugar just because I feel like popping a ball in there is faster and easier than dealing with the loose sugar.  But a lot of people in my area do mountain camp. 

[Kathyp]

I do the dry sugar over winter too. I dump it on the deep side of the inner cover. It is so wet there, that it not only provides extra emergency food, but absorbs some of the moisture.  For fall top off, I never really measured, but made syrup thick.  Maybe not as thick as MBs    My last hive check, depending on activity and temp, is no later than mid-October and that only to check stores.  I don't get deeply into the hive because any damage to the queen at that time of the year is going to end the hive.  There won't be a replacement queen available.

[Ben Framed]

it not only provides extra emergency food, but absorbs some of the moisture. 

Which is Very good when overhead dripping of condensed water on the cluster is a concern, especially in colder climates. And it is so simple to use once the shims are made, as in my case. I simply lay a sheet of newspaper on top of the frames themselves and the bees do the rest: I noticed that the sugar will soon harden once the moisture does its job. I think it was capt44 from Arkansas and a couple more experienced beekeepers who explained this method to me here at beemaster.

[Ben Framed]

https://bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#drysugar

Michael Bush: "Dry Sugar. This can be fed a number of ways. Some people just dump it down the back of the hive (definitely not recommended with Screened Bottom Boards as it will fall through to the ground). Some put it on top of the inner cover. Some put a sheet of newspaper on top of the top bars, add a box on top and put the sugar on the newspaper (as in the photos above). Others put it in a frame feeder (the black plastic trough kind). I've even pulled two frames out of an eight frame box that were empty and dumped the sugar in the gap (with a solid bottom board of course). With screened bottom boards or with a small hive that just needs a little help, I'll pull some empty frames out, put some newspaper in the gap and put a little sugar, spray a little water to clump it so it doesn't run out, a little more sugar until I get it full. Sometimes the house bees carry it out for trash if you don't clump it. If you drizzle some water on it you can get the bees interested in it. The finer the sugar the better they take it. If you can get "bakers" sugar or "drivert" sugar it will be better accepted that standard sugar but harder to find and more expensive."

That is the way I was taught Mr Bush..your words in blue With the exception, I use a shim sized between 2 and 3 inches in height on top.