Queen Cell Questions

[DayValleyDahlias]

Inspected today the swarm I hived on 3/6/08.  Found a queen cell in the upper area of the frame, there was a hole in the bottom of it, it looked like an upside down basket.  What kind of queen cell is that???

With a hole in the bottom does that mean she has emerged? 

I did look yesterday and diagnosed lot's of capped drone, but today I am questioning that.

I saw open and capped brood.  I could not see eggs as the wax is so white, nor did I notice any workers with their butts in the cells.

I may have done something wrong by scraping off a swarm cell ( a pointy cell built on the bottom of the frame ???

[bassman1977]

Inspected today the swarm I hived on 3/6/08.  Found a queen cell in the upper area of the frame, there was a hole in the bottom of it, it looked like an upside down basket.  What kind of queen cell is that???

Supercedure or emergency queen.  I forget if you originally had the queen in this hive.  Maybe she was old and they were going to wack her or maybe she got killed by accident.

With a hole in the bottom does that mean she has emerged? 

If there is nothing in it, most likely.  Could have been more than one and the new queen & workers killed the unemerged queens and this is what is left after they cleaned it out.  Probably just emerged queen though.

I may have done something wrong by scraping off a swarm cell ( a pointy cell built on the bottom of the frame

Yeah.  That's no good.  Leave them alone for a week.  The queen MAY not be done mating yet.

[DayValleyDahlias]

oh well...wait n see wait n see....

[tig]

unless capped or the virgin has emerged, queen cells always have a hole in the bottom.  try looking inside the cell and see if theres a larva and royal jelly.  they may be in the process of making a queen and since they have to feed the larva, they leave a hole for them to do so until such time that the queen will start to pupate which makes them seal it. 

[Michael Bush]

Is it just a sphere with a hole in the bottom made of new wax?  Is it a peanut looking thing with a larvae in it?  Is it a brown papery peanut looking thing with crusty dried royal jelly in the bottom?

[DayValleyDahlias]

It looked like one of these, the hole was pointed downward.  I did not see anything crusty, it was on the upper part of the frame.  There was a closed swarm cell at the bottom of the frame which was conical shaped.  The local apiary person told me to remove that  swarm cell, so I did...

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfallacies.htm#queencellsbad
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfallacies.htm#queencells

[DayValleyDahlias]

Well that just knocked the wind right out of my sails...what are the odds that little basket shaped cell will turn into a queen?

There were 2 cells, one on the top with open center, closed one on the bottom of the frame, now there is one...

[Michael Bush]

If they have some queen cells with larva in them, I'd leave one of them in the old hive and do splits with the rest.  Every frame that has a queen cell can be put in a nuc with a frame of honey and shake in an extra frame of brood (from one without a queen cell so you don't damage the queen).  Make sure that they have a larvae in them.

"There are a few rules of thumb that are useful guides. One is that when you are confronted with some problem in the apiary and you do not know what to do, then do nothing. Matters are seldom made worse by doing nothing and are often made much worse by inept intervention." --The How-To-Do-It book of Beekeeping, Richard Taylor

[Cindi]

Sharon, think you got your answers here.  That picture shows many queen cells that have not been finished capping yet.  The bees will still be feeding these larvae, the larvae are gorging and then they are capped over, and they then look like the regular peanut shaped queen cell that you are familiar with.  Beautiful day in this great life, groove on this life.  Cindi

[JP]

If they have some queen cells with larva in them, I'd leave one of them in the old hive and do splits with the rest.  Every frame that has a queen cell can be put in a nuc with a frame of honey and shake in an extra frame of brood (from one without a queen cell so you don't damage the queen).  Make sure that they have a larvae in them.

"There are a few rules of thumb that are useful guides. One is that when you are confronted with some problem in the apiary and you do not know what to do, then do nothing. Matters are seldom made worse by doing nothing and are often made much worse by inept intervention." --The How-To-Do-It book of Beekeeping, Richard Taylor

How about this: You do your best...and let the bees do the rest.


...JP

[DayValleyDahlias]

Honestly, I am leaving that hive ALONE for as long as I can stand it...

That quote says it all...

I humbly bow...

[Brian D. Bray]

A couple more points:
1. In an emergency the bees will build queen cells wherever there is a viable candidate which can be at the top or bottom or a frame or anywhere in between. 
2. The fewer queen cells found the more likely of queen failure in not only the old queen buy 1 or more of the emerging queens.
3.  If 3-4 or fewer queen cells do not remove any--unless moving for a split, see #2.
4. In an extreme emergency a hive might supercede the superceded queen if candidates were limited and questionable.
5. NEVER, EVER destroy a queen cell, as MB points out at his website, you can split and recombine if necessary if 1 or more queens fail but destroying the queen cell after the hive has swarmed (up to 7 days prior to queen hatch--or, as soon as the cells are capped) will doom the hive by having no replacement queen and no brood from which to make one.

[DayValleyDahlias]

Lovely, looks like it could be doomed then, thanks to me and the advice of an experienced beek... if that one cell doesn't do the trick...If I find brood Friday in the primary hive, I will place it in the swarm hive.  It has been raining, so who knows...I'll have to wait and see

[JP]

Lovely, looks like it could be doomed then, thanks to me and the advice of an experienced beek... if that one cell doesn't do the trick...If I find brood Friday in the primary hive, I will place it in the swarm hive.  It has been raining, so who knows...I'll have to wait and see

This time of yr you should be able to find a replacement queen from someone, or from another hive, a swarm, etc... So, don't go to doom city just yet.


...JP

[Cindi]

Sharon, ooooh don't worry, you are stressing about this (I know, easier said than done).  When the rain stops then you can do stuff with the colonies. Giving the swarm colony a frame of brood in all stages will not do any harm, if can do much good, if the primary hive can spare that frame.

This is your year of learning, and you are learning well, look at the accomplishment you already have, that is good.  We all learn by our mistakes (and let me tell you, I am the master of this learning curve).  These are the hardest life lessons and we learn sound and hard lessons, so take it easy.  Don't go and see the therapist yet, you are doing just fine and things will all work out in the wash.  Hang tough, girl.  So, go and have a wonderful and beautiful day, dream of the day when you will be so relaxed, so deep, so relaxed........that day will come.  Cindi