Author Topic: Another Mean Hive (Read 4145 times)

The15thMember · « **Reply #20 on:** June 10, 2023, 04:13:52 pm »

Quote from: Occam on June 10, 2023, 03:07:20 pm

In regards to re-queening a mean hive. You need to bring in a queen with different genetics or eggs with different genetics right? Letting the hive raise a new queen from her genetics won't make a difference, or can a new queen raised from the mean queen's genetics still be nice?

Quote from: iddee on June 10, 2023, 03:31:49 pm

Occam, genetic meanness normally comes from the drones, so yes, a queen from the same hive can be very gentle, if she mates with drones from a gentle queen.

Since this queen wasn't from my yard, I was planning originally on letting them raise a new queen from their queen's eggs, on the grounds that my drones may be different. But for the same reason, the fact that I don't know where she came from, I'm now just going to requeen with my genetics, just to be safe.

So I was back in the bee yard today finishing up some things that I didn't get around to yesterday for obvious reasons. The bees from this mean hive were following me everywhere in the yard. They would not leave me alone! I had about 20-30 bees from this hive in my face the entire time I was anywhere in the apiary, even when I was all the way down at the end of my line of hives with like 15 ft. between the last hive and theirs. Even when I entered the apiary from that side, in order to not have to pass by them, they still found me. It made it quite difficult to work the hives I needed to work.

I'm not okay with not being able to enter my apiary because of this one hive. I'm still going to try splitting them up and seeing what happens, but if I want or need to euthanize them, how would I go about that? I just want to be prepared with all my options.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #21 on:** June 10, 2023, 05:42:37 pm »

Quote from: iddee on June 10, 2023, 03:31:49 pm

Occam, genetic meanness normally comes from the drones, so yes, a queen from the same hive can be very gentle, if she mates with drones from a gentle queen.

This is my understanding as well. By re-queening with Reagans' gentle stock of bees, will also help insure the new queen will produce drones that will hopefully produce good behavior patterns for future mating in her yard if only in superseder cases, (if her virgins mate with drones from her yard). . I remember debate about this in accordance to drone congregation areas. I am thinking It was TheHoneyPump, Van From Arkansas and Yourself iddee, 'as well as others' that taught us much about this subject through debate and sharing of years of each of your knowledge.

Either way I would rather have queens potentially producing drones with gentle qualities than the opposite. My vote is 'Mr Claude' her!!

Phillip

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 10, 2023, 09:19:49 pm »

Reagan,
When you find her, just have a small eye dropper jar filled with 90% alcohol and drop her in it. The bees will not bee defensive of her. I remember dispatching my very first queen from my first hive, she had defective wing virus. I dug a hole with my finger and put her in it and buried her. I thought the other bees would come after me. They don?t.
You can use the alcohol for putting on swarm traps. Great for attracting scout bees.
Jim Altmiller

The15thMember · « **Reply #23 on:** June 10, 2023, 09:48:50 pm »

Quote from: BeeMaster2 on June 10, 2023, 09:19:49 pm

Reagan,
When you find her, just have a small eye dropper jar filled with 90% alcohol and drop her in it. The bees will not bee defensive of her. I remember dispatching my very first queen from my first hive, she had defective wing virus. I dug a hole with my finger and put her in it and buried her. I thought the other bees would come after me. They don?t.
You can use the alcohol for putting on swarm traps. Great for attracting scout bees.
Jim Altmiller

Thanks Jim, I've killed queens before. I usually just stick them in a jar and put them in the freezer.

So I'm kicking around an idea here. Like I mentioned, I've got my summer dearth about two weeks out, and I really need this hive to be manageable by that point, or the whole yard is going to become unmanageable from these mean ones following me everywhere. I discovered today that I'm out of bottom boards, so I can't split them in two (or more), and I'm honestly concerned about having several of them instead of just one if they don't calm down when they are smaller. What if I took the half of the hive with the queen and just euthanized it, leaving me with the queenless half, which I can give some eggs to?

William Bagwell · « **Reply #24 on:** June 11, 2023, 10:57:17 am »

Quote from: BeeMaster2 on June 10, 2023, 09:19:49 pm

When you find her, just have a small eye dropper jar filled with 90% alcohol and drop her in it.

Isopropyl OK? Any benefit to wasting an ounce or two of Everclear?

Have read warnings not to pinch a queen and then go in another hive. This might get you membership in the exclusive 'stung by a queen' club.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #25 on:** June 11, 2023, 12:26:36 pm »

Van From Arkansas was stung by a queen. I can not remember the details of the conversation.

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 11, 2023, 03:06:19 pm »

Most people who have been stung be queen bees are Queen breeders. They handle one queen and the next one they handle stings them due to the Queen phenomenon. I have never been stung by a queen and I do not hesitate to pick one up when I see them.
Jim Altmiller

Occam · « **Reply #27 on:** June 11, 2023, 06:14:54 pm »

Quote from: The15thMember on June 10, 2023, 04:13:52 pm

I'm not okay with not being able to enter my apiary because of this one hive. I'm still going to try splitting them up and seeing what happens, but if I want or need to euthanize them, how would I go about that? I just want to be prepared with all my options.

A friend of mine that worked in a vet clinic/lab had to occasionally euthanize animals of various types for lab testing, generally to find out what was going on with a specific group of animals. The lab had a box type container they'd put the animal in then flood it with nitrogen gas or co2 gas for about 3-4 minutes. Not sure that helps you but it's a possibility. If you close the entrance at night and have a container with an air nozzle you could flood the box, wouldn't take a special set up. As long as you don't have a sbb or other high ventilation system. Of course you wouldn't be able to split the hive either...

The15thMember · « **Reply #28 on:** June 11, 2023, 08:05:27 pm »

Quote from: Occam on June 11, 2023, 06:14:54 pm

A friend of mine that worked in a vet clinic/lab had to occasionally euthanize animals of various types for lab testing, generally to find out what was going on with a specific group of animals. The lab had a box type container they'd put the animal in then flood it with nitrogen gas or co2 gas for about 3-4 minutes. Not sure that helps you but it's a possibility. If you close the entrance at night and have a container with an air nozzle you could flood the box, wouldn't take a special set up. As long as you don't have a sbb or other high ventilation system. Of course you wouldn't be able to split the hive either...

Thanks, Aaron. This hive does have a screened bottom board, and the insert on this particular one isn't tight at all, so it probably wouldn't work, but good idea.

I found this old thread where HP describes a method of euthanizing a hive with a garden sprayer and a tub of soapy water. Has anyone else tried this before? https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=54456.msg494916#msg494916

Occam · « **Reply #29 on:** June 11, 2023, 09:58:28 pm »

I've not seen it done with bees but I've used it with great success on wasp nests. I can't imagine it wouldn't work just as well. Gonna have to be quick as you open it to get as many as possible in cluster. Sorry to hear you have to do this

The15thMember · « **Reply #30 on:** June 11, 2023, 11:36:20 pm »

Quote from: Occam on June 11, 2023, 09:58:28 pm

I've not seen it done with bees but I've used it with great success on wasp nests. I can't imagine it wouldn't work just as well. Gonna have to be quick as you open it to get as many as possible in cluster. Sorry to hear you have to do this

Thanks Aaron. I'm obviously not looking forward to it, but I just can't afford to wait them out. I went up into the apiary to pull a super today. It had been raining and very few bees were out, but when I walked by this hive, immediately 4 bees flew out and were buzzing right in my face until I left the apiary. I figure I'll at least give half the hive a chance to redeem themselves.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #31 on:** June 11, 2023, 11:37:58 pm »

Quote from: BeeMaster2 on June 11, 2023, 03:06:19 pm

Most people who have been stung be queen bees are Queen breeders. They handle one queen and the next one they handle stings them due to the Queen phenomenon. I have never been stung by a queen and I do not hesitate to pick one up when I see them.
Jim Altmiller

That makes sense Jim, Van was set up to do artificial insemination, a very smart man....

Phillip

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 12, 2023, 09:31:14 am »

If you have an Africanized hive the bee inspector will use dish soap and a hose applicator to cover the inside of the hive with foam. We use a foam inductor and a spray nozzle when a commercial bee 18 wheeler crashes with bees, to kill all of the hives. Not pretty but very effective. If you have clean liquid fertilizer that you fill the quart container and connect it to your hose, you can fill it with soap and it will make lots of foam fast. When the bees are gone, you just rinse off the frames and boxes.
Jim Altmiller

Occam · « **Reply #33 on:** June 12, 2023, 09:58:05 am »

Once theyre soaked with soap, whether foamy or otherwise, do the cappings honey from the soap? Either for your own use or to feed back. Or is it best to spin it out and do away with it?

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 12, 2023, 12:50:10 pm »

Occam,
If the honey is capped it is water/air proof and usable.
Jim Altmiller

Occam · « **Reply #35 on:** June 12, 2023, 12:57:47 pm »

Right on, I just wasn't sure if chemicals in the soap would leach through the cappings. Thanks!

Michael Bush · « **Reply #36 on:** June 12, 2023, 01:31:40 pm »

I have never killed a hive, but if I were to attempt it, I wouldn't want to ruin all the honey with soap. Why not just vacuum them up and leave them in the vacuum? Then the combs would at least be clean.

The15thMember · « **Reply #37 on:** June 12, 2023, 01:40:44 pm »

Quote from: Michael Bush on June 12, 2023, 01:31:40 pm

I have never killed a hive, but if I were to attempt it, I wouldn't want to ruin all the honey with soap. Why not just vacuum them up and leave them in the vacuum? Then the combs would at least be clean.

I don't have a bee vac, but since I'm trying to kill them, I guess that might not matter. We do have a shop vac; could I use that (and not ruin the shop vac)?

Occam · « **Reply #38 on:** June 12, 2023, 01:48:22 pm »

You definitely could, be pretty humane as well because the bees will die quickly. Depending on the size of the vac and hive you may need to empty it partway through. If it's a 5 gallon vac you should be fine. Could even put soapy water in the bottom to kill off any that may survive the tube

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 12, 2023, 01:49:15 pm »

It won?t hurt the shop vac. More than likely almost every bee will bee dead once it is in the bottom of the vacuum. The very low pressure breaks their outer skeletal shell. Do not leave them in there very long. The stench of dead bees can bee really bad. When done suck up a little bit of soapy water to make sure they are all dead.
Jim Altmiller