Beehive building decisions

[omnimirage]

The only person who I can buy supers off in my region charges a high price of $37 for a single 10 frame deep super; 8 frames, and smaller size are barely any cheaper. Because of this, I decided to build my own supers, which I done so and cost me about $10, + about an hour or so of labour.

I'm going to need to do so again, and I need to decide on a few things: do I have seperate, detachable bases, or do I nail the base to fixed bottom supers? Should I use solely linseed oil to preserve the inner parts of the super, or should I mix it with some turpentine, or perhaps use another method all together? And the biggest question: should I transition to 8 frame hives?

I was going to use 8 frame hives when I started out, but decided at the last minute to use 10 frame instead due to learning that 10 frame is the standard size in my state, which makes it easier to mingle with other beekeepers and what not. However, I've learned since of a case of a commerical beekeeper wanting to officially hire other beekeepers, and he required to replace all of his 10 frame hives with 8 frames in order to meet the goverment's health and safety regulations (10 frames are too heavy for such standards). Sometimes, the deep 10 frame supers are so heavy that I can't lift them without taking out frames first. I'm also starting to develop minor back pains when in my early twenties, and I wonder if the decision now to use 10 or 8 frame hives will impact such when I'm a much older man.

During hectic spring season, I've been going on a popular local advertising site(gumtree) to look for bee equipment to purchase, and to my surprise, there isn't anyone good selling such stuff. One guy charges quite a high price, and his ad is so unintelligible that it's difficult to determine what he's actually selling. Another person charges extremely extortion prices: $7 for a single frame! What the hell!? Then nucleus's made out of recycled realistate bill board for the same price as a wooden variant. Right now, there's a man who made a ad saying that he's looking to buy supers and other equipment, and from what I've gathered, there's a lot of beekeepers in my area. I've been wondering if, when I build my own hives, if I should build extra and sell them to people on there. I could make them for $10, sell them for $33 for about an hour's work; that's a decent wage! There's clearly the market for such, and no one else is providing a reasonably cheap service of such. Someone who I told this idea to thinks it's a bad idea, because I'll be setting up the competition for my honey business; he said it'd be profitiable short-term, but not long-term; I'm not sure what to think of such.

Lots to think about! Let me know your thoughts :)

[OldMech]

So use mediums instead of deeps. A deep full of honey can near 100 lbs. I had one that was 103 lbs...  a medium full of honey is around 60 lbs...  an 8 frame medium is around 46 lbs give or take a little.
   I "try" to always have extra hives ready. The number one reason for that is not to sell them, but because you WILL need it, or them sooner or later, when you find swarm cells and need to split, catch a swarm, or do a cut out etc...   Number two reason, is because someone will inevitably ask if you could sell them a hive or three.
   Standard hives in Aus may not be the same that we use over here, but is worth the consideration.

[little john]

You could either do as OldMech says and cut down on the height of the boxes, or you could reduce the width from 10 to 8-frame (or do both !) ... or ... do as Michael Palmer does, and use half-width boxes.

There are a couple of YouTube videos of Michael Palmer's talk at the UK Honey Show a couple of years ago which are perhaps best described as 'mega-informative'. You'll need to watch them several times to absorb all the info. It's all clever stuff - and commercially proven over many years.

Using half-width boxes may be unconventional, but doing so solves many problems. I'm in the process of converting over to half-width boxes myself, and I know that many others are too.
IMO, the only size to be concerned about is the frame size - if possible try and keep this the same as neighbouring beekeepers, for mutual convenience.

It's best NOT to permanently attach bases to any box in order to keep the use of such boxes flexible - you can always screw or clip the bases on later if you need to - but most people just run a strap around hives when moving them.

With regard to making boxes for sale - why not ? I'd suggest testing the water first with just a few, and see how it goes. Much depends on how you can handle repetition. It's very easy to mentally 'drift-off' when performing exactly the same task hour after hour, and that's when fingers can so easily be lost.

Best of luck
LJ

[Dallasbeek]

Leave the inside surfaces of the boxes, frames, etc., unfinished.  The bees will propolize the insides to their satisfaction and applying linseed oil may thwart their efforts.  The propolis protects the wood, but also is antibiotic.

[capt44]

I build every piece of my bee hives.
You don't have to use box joints, dado joints work perfect also.
If you use box joints here is the dimension on the cut boards.
LENGTH--
19 7/8 INCHES LONG BY 9 5/8 DEEP FOR DEEP BOXES, SHORT BOARD FOR A 10 frame box is 16 1/4 inches long x 9 5/8 inches deep.  8 frame is 13 3/4 or 14 inches long for the short board. (There is no set standard for the 8 frame box width. One part of the country uses 13 3/4 and another part uses 14 inches. Length of long boards are always 19 7/8 inches long.
Dimensions using dado joints.
Long Board is 19 1/8 inches long by 9 5/8 inches deep for deep boxes. Short Boards are 16 1/4 inches long for 10 frame or 8 frame is either 13 3/4 or 14 inches long. Cut a 3/4 inch x 3/8 deep dado joint on each end of the short board. When you insert the long board into the dado joints you will have a box 19 7/8 inches long.
Depth of Boxes.
Deeps are 9 5/8 inches deep
Mediums are 6 5/8 inches deep
Shallow is 5 11/16 inches deep.
Hope this helps.

[Dave86]

8 framers are far more effecient then 10s.

Use a full as a brood box then WSP, or ideal as supers, or both.

$37 is a bloody rip off for a super, name and shame I say. I can get commercial hoop boxes for $23 for 10f and $21 for 8f. Full that is. Smaller sizes are cheaper.

[HillBilly2]

What are the inside dimensions for 8 and 10 frame? I have some non standard lumber to use and probably planning on a double rabbet corners. Measuring some existing boxes has given conflicting size. If I know the inside for sure I can figure the overlap for overall length. Thanks!

[texanbelchers]

I build every piece of my bee hives.
You don't have to use box joints, dado joints work perfect also.
If you use box joints here is the dimension on the cut boards.
LENGTH--
19 7/8 INCHES LONG BY 9 5/8 DEEP FOR DEEP BOXES, SHORT BOARD FOR A 10 frame box is 16 1/4 inches long x 9 5/8 inches deep.  8 frame is 13 3/4 or 14 inches long for the short board. (There is no set standard for the 8 frame box width. One part of the country uses 13 3/4 and another part uses 14 inches. Length of long boards are always 19 7/8 inches long.
Dimensions using dado joints.
Long Board is 19 1/8 inches long by 9 5/8 inches deep for deep boxes. Short Boards are 16 1/4 inches long for 10 frame or 8 frame is either 13 3/4 or 14 inches long. Cut a 3/4 inch x 3/8 deep dado joint on each end of the short board. When you insert the long board into the dado joints you will have a box 19 7/8 inches long.
Depth of Boxes.
Deeps are 9 5/8 inches deep
Mediums are 6 5/8 inches deep
Shallow is 5 11/16 inches deep.
Hope this helps.

This assumes actual 3/4" material.  If you are using standard frames, the 19 1/8" internal dimension and the box height are the most critical.  All of the boxes allow for a bit of side to side play.  The frame rabbet "standard" is 3/8" (width) x 5/8" (height).  Every box maker seems to allow a bit of tolerance and lean one way or the other.  Maintaining bee space is the key to minimizing issues.

However goofy the standards are, keeping them allows equipment to be used wherever it is needed without worrying about who made it or how it was made.  A standard based on normally available material sizes would be nice.  However, the lumber standards would then change again and we would be back in the same boat.  :)

[HillBilly2]

Thanks, that helps, so the boxes are 19 1/8 x 12 1/4 or 12 1/2 wide internally for 8 frame and 6 5/8 high for mediums. Any reason for the difference? That's what got me confused when I was measuring some of my supers. Didn't trust my measurements. Thanks for the help!

[Michael Bush]

>Thanks, that helps, so the boxes are 19 1/8 x 12 1/4 or 12 1/2 wide internally for 8 frame and 6 5/8 high for mediums.

Inside (not counting the frame rest) the length is 18 3/8".  Inside the width at the frame rests is 19 1/8".  The top bar is 19" and has 1/8" play in it.  Width for an eight frame is not that fixed.  The two most common sizes are 12 1/2" and 12 1/4".  Mine are all 12 1/4" inside and are from either Miller Bee Supply or Brushy Mt.  Mann Lake's are 12 1/2".

[HillBilly2]

Thank you very much. I was about to miscut some boards.......I really appreciate it.

[KeyLargoBees]

Measure twice.....consult forums....measure twice more....then cut ;-)

[gww]

Hiilbilly
If you want some free plans to print and hold in your hand while building, try here.

http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/

No matter what I build, I always look for something free to print that I can carry with me.
Hope this helps.
gww

[texanbelchers]

Measure twice.....consult forums....measure twice more....then cut ;-)

And, when assembling, the hand holds go on the OUTSIDE!  Silly Aggie, that was for the other side of the box.....  Titebond and stainless steel staples hold really well.....

[HillBilly2]

Thanks guys! 

[Wombat2]

Omnimirage where are you? (location within State) There are a couple of manufacturers here in and around Brisbane that run at $22- $25 a box Cheaper in bulk (10 plus)

I started with half height thinking of the weight issue at 68 but after the first 12 months swung over to full depth. It was taking just as much time and effort to extract a half frame as a full one. Now I am adapting to handle the weight - I have built a portable crane to lift boxes and building an aerial cableway to transport two boxes at a time up our steep block to the house. Our American cousins seem to like building towers out of supers and harvest once a year - if you follow the process most Aussies do we rob once or twice a month during the flow by under supering -i.e. placing an empty framed super in the middle of 3 supers (brood on the bottom) taking full frames off the top and lifting part filled frames from the old middle to the top super and outsides. At the moment I am doing it frame by frame but am working toward handling a whole super at a time by blowing the bees off the frames and lifting the whole full super onto my trolley.

[KeyLargoBees]

I tried my hand at building boxes and all went pretty well...I love working with my hands and woodworking is fun...then I found our local wooden ware MANUFACTURER....not reseller....and deeps are $13 and medium/shallow 10.75....I do have to drive to pick them up and put em together and paint em but I don't think I can make em for that cheap LOL....next batch will be purchased and not made ;-P

http://sflbeesupplies.com/index.php?plugin=Products&id=75&title=deep-hive-body-10-frame-comm