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Author Topic: Something most of us already thought was true  (Read 153 times)

Offline Kathyp

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Something most of us already thought was true
« on: September 13, 2021, 08:26:58 pm »
but finally people are looking at the numbers.  Rarely will I find something worth even reading in The Atlantic, but this was that exception.  I'll be interested to see if this is continued and updated.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Something most of us already thought was true
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2021, 08:41:56 am »
Over crowding in hospitals would end instantly if they refused to care for the people who could get the vaccine and didn't.  The pandemic would be over in an instant too because people would get vaccinated or suffer the consequences.  The problem is hospitals are businesses and they along with medical equipment suppliers are making land fall profits.  The only problem they have is health care workers are bailing and either not going in to work or choosing another carrier.  Long term effects for normal medical care in the future don't look good.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Something most of us already thought was true
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2021, 01:41:06 pm »
No one should get care if they don't do as they are told.  This would be made even easier with single-payer.

Don't treat AIDs patients that didn't practice safe sex.  Don't care for women who become pregnant when they could have used birth control. Overweight?  No BP meds, orthopedic surgery, cardiac care...

The government has instructed us on all these things, so if you do not follow what they say, you are out of luck for care.  Sounds like a plan and think of all the money we will save.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline gww

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Re: Something most of us already thought was true
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2021, 02:58:45 pm »
Kathy
I agree with your sentiment that nobody will live up to every other persons ideal of what is safe and so we need to treat all that are sick when they are sick.  This does not change that we have a health care system that can fill up and if it does so too often, something will have to be addressed.  In war hospitals, when over loaded, they worked on those they had the best chance of saving and I am sure at lax times some that did not get care could have been saved.

You can only do what you can do with what you are provided to work with.  Since profit driven health care may be run in a similar fashion as a profit making car maker and in the car maker industry the Ideal became that on time delivery was a money saver and having banks for emergencies were redundant, Perhaps things in health care might need to be looked at with different priorities.
Cheers
gww

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Something most of us already thought was true
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2021, 04:54:26 pm »
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You can only do what you can do with what you are provided to work with.  Since profit driven health care may be run in a similar fashion as a profit making car maker and in the car maker industry the Ideal became that on time delivery was a money saver and having banks for emergencies were redundant, Perhaps things in health care might need to be looked at with different priorities.

We are fortunate that in this country we have the ability to expand services when we need to.  We have both NGO and military field hospitals and ships.  We have plenty of retired nurses and doctors that are willing to pitch in when needed.  Because there IS profit to be made under certain circumstances, we have companies that are more than willing to do whatever needs to be done to provide materials, and universities that are happy to take massive grants to work on developing things that are needed.  Alternatives to the standard respirator as an example.

I saw a thing on the news claiming that COVID is being treated for free.  This is not true.  Hospitals are being reimbursed for COVID expenses as are pharmacies and other places doing immunizations.

in general, profit is a good thing because it spurs innovation. Competition is a good thing because it spurs excellence.   However, when money is being passed out and there is little oversight, the drive for profit can lead to corruption.  Someone who comes in with a broken arm and tests positive for COVID is probably worth more as a COVID patient.  Especially if they are Medicaid or Medicare.

Hospitals have been directed to post care costs. I think this was one of the best things Trump did for healthcare.

It was supposed to have been done since January.  Many are ignoring the requirement and no one seems to be enforcing it.  People need to consume healthcare in the same way they consume everything else.  If they did, and if they relied less on insurance and more on shopping for cheaper and better care, care providers would be forced to compete for customers and be more transparent.  Competition for customers would help drive down prices.


They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Something most of us already thought was true
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2021, 09:10:50 am »

We are fortunate that in this country we have the ability to expand services when we need to.  We have both NGO and military field hospitals and ships.
 
What a dream world you live in.  The military services 1% of our population for GI's with a very low casualty rate.  The military as a medical back up could barely service one major city.  It had all it could do to handle the people stranded on cruise ships.
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We have plenty of retired nurses and doctors that are willing to pitch in when needed.
Again, another joke.

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we have companies that are more than willing to do whatever needs to be done to provide materials,

We have companies that are basically sales and marketing.  Supplies come from China and China held back for their own people.

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and universities that are happy to take massive grants to work on developing things that are needed.

In a pandemic the kids were sent home.
 
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However, when money is being passed out and there is little oversight, the drive for profit can lead to corruption.  Someone who comes in with a broken arm and tests positive for COVID is probably worth more as a COVID patient.  Especially if they are Medicaid or Medicare.
Sure it does.  All the more reason to keep them out of the hospital

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Competition for customers would help drive down prices.
Explain how that works when you don't have enough room or employees to handle what is coming in the door.
I am beginning to see your disconnect with reality.  Some people NEED to be told what to do and give up some freedoms because they make very bad choices when left on their own.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Something most of us already thought was true
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2021, 09:18:01 am »
Don't treat AIDs patients that didn't practice safe sex.  Don't care for women who become pregnant when they could have used birth control. Overweight?  No BP meds, orthopedic surgery, cardiac care...
I am not totally against this concept.  Everybody makes mistakes but when behavior doesn't change there should be some deterrents.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it