Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: RL on September 10, 2021, 05:42:31 am

Title: What are these bees doing?
Post by: RL on September 10, 2021, 05:42:31 am
Anyone know what these bees are doing?
https://vimeo.com/601547052
Theres a whole cloud of them in the yard, they seem interested in a small crack in our wall. There's nothing sugary there, and the hole doesn't lead to anywhere.

We don't have bees, but our neighbour does. They are a bit of a concern so I'm trying to understand about bees and their behaviour.

Thanks!
RL
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: .30WCF on September 10, 2021, 05:53:04 am
First glance it looks damp. Bees need water. Is there water leaking out of the crack or does water pool up when you wash down the paint cart next to it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 10, 2021, 08:28:04 am
Good catch 30...
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Acebird on September 10, 2021, 08:29:50 am
Almost looks like they are searching for a home.  Why is there discoloration on the concrete / dirt coming from the crack?  Suggest a flow of water???
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 10, 2021, 08:37:43 am
Quote
 
RL
the hole doesn't lead to anywhere.

The crack may not lead to anywhere to the naked eye but blocks such as in this wall have hollow places..

RL why is the small hole there? Is this a weep hole, or an A/C drain, other? Why is water coming from this small hole?





 
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: BeeMaster2 on September 10, 2021, 01:44:26 pm
RL,
Welcome to Beemaster.
What is on the other side of the wall?
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Brian MCquilkin on September 10, 2021, 02:15:10 pm
My first thought was that they were collecting water, on a second glance I think they might have set up home. My reasoning is I noticed then defending against what appears to be a yellow jacket.
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 10, 2021, 02:54:30 pm
When I first decided to keep bees I joined beemaster one year ahead of time, reading and studying trying to educate myself with at least the basics.  I also watched JP and Schawee videos on bee removal. I decided removal would be my avenue of obtaining bees. I talked to the local Police Dept, Fire Department etc. A removal call came from a hotel. The situation was similar to yours with block walls RL. The bees had already set up housekeeping inside this block wall. I did not do this job because I did not want to take on such responsibility of breaking into a supporting block wall. I did 'not' have thermal imaging. It was to far from home for a trap out and to many pedestrians in this area anyway.  So yes the bees can and will hive in a block wall.




Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: RL on September 11, 2021, 08:09:00 am
Thanks for the good advice all.

This is a retaining wall in the back yard. Yes moisture runs out from under the wall across the rocks here often, for a long time after rain.
I do hope the bees aren't looking for water here, we can't do anything about the water, it's just the geology here.
I'll ask the neighbour if she puts out water for her bees.  Maybe they won't come here if they can get a drink at home!

@Ben Framed you are right, these blocks are hollow, although as best I can tell this is a blind hole.
But anyway I will block off the hole, and any others I can find.  The interest in the hole has stopped now, but there's still clouds of bees.

Thanks,
RL
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Brian MCquilkin on September 11, 2021, 08:49:30 am
Bees don't like the rain, put a sprinkler on them and after a day or 2, they will go and find another water source.
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: The15thMember on September 11, 2021, 11:56:18 am
Thanks for the good advice all.

This is a retaining wall in the back yard. Yes moisture runs out from under the wall across the rocks here often, for a long time after rain.
I do hope the bees aren't looking for water here, we can't do anything about the water, it's just the geology here.
I'll ask the neighbour if she puts out water for her bees.  Maybe they won't come here if they can get a drink at home!

@Ben Framed you are right, these blocks are hollow, although as best I can tell this is a blind hole.
But anyway I will block off the hole, and any others I can find.  The interest in the hole has stopped now, but there's still clouds of bees.

Thanks,
RL

All good advice here, but I would just like to add that IF the bees are only gathering water here, there is really no need to try and get them to leave.  Bees forage for water just like they forage for nectar, and them coming here to drink will not cause any damage or encourage them to move into any nearby cavities or anything like that.  As long as they aren't a nuisance, there is no reason not to let them be, provided they are not in fact living in the wall.     
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: RL on September 12, 2021, 09:21:23 pm
Thanks The15thMember. I'm not worried about damage, I'm just concerned that the more bees we get, the more we will get stung.
We get a lot of bees just wandering around on the lawn, as well as flying all around us.
I have young kids, it doesn't take many stings and they're afraid to go outside now.

That's a good idea about the sprinkler - I might try watering the grass when I see a lot of bees.
I don't think it will be a long term solution though, since they live right next door.

Thanks!
RL
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: mark on September 13, 2021, 10:05:55 am
foragers will not sting away from the hive unless they are molested.  if you have dutch clover in bloom don't walk in it in bare feet
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: The15thMember on September 13, 2021, 02:01:53 pm
Thanks The15thMember. I'm not worried about damage, I'm just concerned that the more bees we get, the more we will get stung.
We get a lot of bees just wandering around on the lawn, as well as flying all around us.
I have young kids, it doesn't take many stings and they're afraid to go outside now.

That's a good idea about the sprinkler - I might try watering the grass when I see a lot of bees.
I don't think it will be a long term solution though, since they live right next door.

Thanks!
RL

foragers will not sting away from the hive unless they are molested.  if you have dutch clover in bloom don't walk in it in bare feet
I was going to mention something along these lines.  The overwhelming majority of the time, bees will only sting in defense of a colony or if stepped on or otherwise crushed.  Again assuming the bees are not living in the wall, as long as the children are not playing in that immediate area in bare feet, they should be in no danger.  Just as an example of how foraging bees will not sting, I was cleaning some frames outside the other day, and there is very little nectar available for my bees this time of year, so a little bit of honey will quickly draw them to a location.  As I was cleaning the frames, there were probably 300 bees flying about and licking up drops of spilled honey, including several on my hands and many on the frame I was actively working on.  I was just in shorts, a T-shirt, and flip-flops, no veil or suit or anything, and I took no stings.           
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 13, 2021, 02:35:05 pm
RL. honey bees, when away from their hives are all business, ("busy as a bee"), either looking for nectar, pollen, water, or on rare occasions; considering swarming season, a new place to live. Even then they are not aggressive, you can actually walk into an active swarm of thousand and thousands of bees and not be stung. Generally speaking honey bees have no interest in looking for confrontation. As Member and Mark mentioned they wish to live and let live. A honey bee is capable stinging once and only once. They naturally know this. Unlike a wasp or hornet which can and will sting multiple times and live to tell about it :-)   

On the other hand, if a honey bee stings, her stinger will be pulled and ripped away from her body, dismembering her (sure death). Honey bees sting as a last resort for a self defence act. Such as when being mashed as stated earlier. Many times when folks are stung, and honey bees are in the area, the honey bee gets the blame almost every time, when in reality it may be a wasp or some other type stinging insect. If the stinger is intact at the place of the sting, then it is a honey bee sting. Otherwise.........

I hope this helps ease and puts to rest your concerns..




Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: .30WCF on September 13, 2021, 02:48:10 pm
Your neighbor will likely start putting water out if you bring this to their attention.
I have bees and don?t want them buzzing around my porch and kids play set. It?s more a peace of mind thing, but it is peace of mind and that means something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 13, 2021, 03:09:17 pm
Your neighbor will likely start putting water out if you bring this to their attention.
 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree.
The old time bird baths make good bee waterers and are attractive to the eye. Just make sure water is always in supply..
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: The15thMember on September 13, 2021, 04:59:10 pm
Your neighbor will likely start putting water out if you bring this to their attention.
 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree.
The old time bird baths make good bee waterers and are attractive to the eye. Just make sure water is always in supply..
And also be sure that the bees can't drown in it.  I agree with .30, your neighbor putting out water may help to keep them away from this spot, if that is what you prefer.  Although sometimes bees are attracted to particular salts or minerals weeping from certain locations, and if that is the case, it may be more difficult to encourage them to forage elsewhere.     
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 13, 2021, 05:27:27 pm
Quote
And also be sure that the bees can't drown in it.

Although sometimes bees are attracted to particular salts or minerals weeping from certain locations, and if that is the case, it may be more difficult to encourage them to forage elsewhere. 
 


Good point. A good reason for the bird bath, low mortality...




Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Michael Bush on September 13, 2021, 09:04:12 pm
Sometimes they will move into the hollow part of a concrete block wall.  As other's have said, it's also possible they are gathering water.  I would say they act like they live there, but there aren't that many coming and going so it couldn't be a very large colony yet.
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: BeeMaster2 on September 14, 2021, 08:06:53 am
Watch the bees and look for bees with pollen on their hind legs. If you see pollen going in then it s a hive.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: RL on September 15, 2021, 08:23:22 am
Thanks folks.
I know enough about bees to know they die after stinging, and they don't (or shouldn't) sting without good reason.

I grew up on an acre of established gardens in the country, with masses of flowers all year round, and there were always a lot of bees moving among the flowers. In 18 years, I got stung maybe twice.

We've only been at this place 6 months, and so far my wife, my 7yo and me have all been stung after stepping on bees that were wandering round on the grass (we pulled out stingers each time). There's no weeds in the lawn, we had it sprayed. 5yo and 7yo have both had bees fly into their hair and get tangled, 7yo was stung (I found the stinger in his head), thankfully 5yo wasn't due to quick action, but she was so traumatized she might as well have been.

My wife was sitting on a wall outside (the one in the video) when one landed on her face, she reflexively lifted her hand up and was immediately stung up inside her nose. I got the stinger out with a flashlight and long pointed tweezers. Thankfully all without the kids finding out.

My experience growing up in the country set a kind of benchmark for me for what I thought was "normal" bee numbers and behavior. I don't remember bees walking round on the ground. The bees also flew fairly lazily between the flowers.  Here they're zooming round the yard like little jet planes, sometimes there are clouds of them. Based only on my own experience, it doesn't seem normal, and 6 stings in 6 months also doesn't seem normal. I don't know enough to understand this yet, but given this situation, I need to learn the reason, and then do something about it if I can.

Anyway I am grateful for what I have learned so far.

Regards
RL
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: yes2matt on September 15, 2021, 08:42:23 am
Thanks folks.
I know enough about bees to know they die after stinging, and they don't (or shouldn't) sting without good reason.

I grew up on an acre of established gardens in the country, with masses of flowers all year round, and there were always a lot of bees moving among the flowers. In 18 years, I got stung maybe twice.

We've only been at this place 6 months, and so far my wife, my 7yo and me have all been stung after stepping on bees that were wandering round on the grass (we pulled out stingers each time). There's no weeds in the lawn, we had it sprayed. 5yo and 7yo have both had bees fly into their hair and get tangled, 7yo was stung (I found the stinger in his head), thankfully 5yo wasn't due to quick action, but she was so traumatized she might as well have been.

My wife was sitting on a wall outside (the one in the video) when one landed on her face, she reflexively lifted her hand up and was immediately stung up inside her nose. I got the stinger out with a flashlight and long pointed tweezers. Thankfully all without the kids finding out.

My experience growing up in the country set a kind of benchmark for me for what I thought was "normal" bee numbers and behavior. I don't remember bees walking round on the ground. The bees also flew fairly lazily between the flowers.  Here they're zooming round the yard like little jet planes, sometimes there are clouds of them. Based only on my own experience, it doesn't seem normal, and 6 stings in 6 months also doesn't seem normal. I don't know enough to understand this yet, but given this situation, I need to learn the reason, and then do something about it if I can.

Anyway I am grateful for what I have learned so far.

Regards
RL
You are right that this isn't normal. I'm looking at your video and they do not look like bees foraging for mineral water as much as they look like bees bringing back nectar loads. Hence the landing early and crawling toward the hole.

If they live there,  it would explain why they are crawling in the grass in that area, and why they are flying so low to be getting in your face/hair, and why they are inclined to sting.  Also it sounds like they are not gentle bees, neither are they very healthy, based on the video.

Can you ask your beekeeper neighbor to evaluate the situation?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 15, 2021, 02:45:14 pm
Quote
We've only been at this place 6 months, and so far my wife, my 7yo and me have all been stung after stepping on bees that were wandering round on the grass (we pulled out stingers each time).

I have lived in the country my entire life. There were always Honey Bees around. Once in the eve of our home. Always in a hollow tree in our backyard. We nor any of our neighbors were beekeepers. I do keep bees now. I have 'never' seen 'honey' bees just wandering around in the yard or crawling through grass.
Moving from clover top to clover top forging as you describe as your childhood experience of the blooms and flowers, yes. Naturally when this occurs as you know, barefooted pedestrians will receive stings on their foot. If that was the case in your situation, only six strings from such in six months would be a conservative number considering bees finding a food source, they concentrate on it. Since your yard has been sprayed, I assume there is nothing blooming in your yard. So this does not add up. Bees stay busy 'gathering' when not in the hive. Lottering in the grass away with no food source away from the hive is not in their nature. Honey Bees will sometimes land on a human and when mashed will sting as stated earlier in the topic about bees natural self defensive .

As a child honey bees were noticed in our location, as were wasp, spiders, ants, frogs etc. Our main concern was poisonous snakes (which were plentiful). 'Shorty' our dog handled that problem most of the time. lol (You should have seen him in action! He was a snake terroriser!  My parents educated us on each of these potential encounters. Such encounters of each were expected and boundaries of each potential were realized and dealt with when needed and accepted as our way of life. A price of living in the country as opposed to city living.

I doubt the following relates to your case as you seem like a level headed fellow, and a reasonable thinker.

As a side note just for fun:  :cheesy:
We had a family move here from the city many years ago, back before my area was so 'domesticated'. The fellow groomed his yard, sprayed, edged etc with extreme precise, just as he had done during his city living. Which out in the country, in those days was not a common occurrence. Yes grass was cut and hedges were pruned but the precision of this fellow was not so much demonstrated. . One day one of the ranchers cattle happened to get out. A couple crossed his beautiful lawn. The new fellow happened to show up at the country store, interrupted the conversation which was going on at the time and commenced fussing about cows getting on his beautiful lawn. One of the oldtimers told him."You knew this was the country when you moved here. You knew cows and horses abound here and yes cows and horses do on occasion get out." "What did you expect when you moved here? It amazes me how you city folks want to escape the grind of city living, yet bring your city ways and thinking to the country." Of course the entire audience bursted out laughing and the fellow left mad. But he soon got over it. He did not move back to his safe city living he learned to assimilate. 
 :happy:     
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: The15thMember on September 15, 2021, 02:59:36 pm
Thanks folks.
I know enough about bees to know they die after stinging, and they don't (or shouldn't) sting without good reason.

I grew up on an acre of established gardens in the country, with masses of flowers all year round, and there were always a lot of bees moving among the flowers. In 18 years, I got stung maybe twice.

We've only been at this place 6 months, and so far my wife, my 7yo and me have all been stung after stepping on bees that were wandering round on the grass (we pulled out stingers each time). There's no weeds in the lawn, we had it sprayed. 5yo and 7yo have both had bees fly into their hair and get tangled, 7yo was stung (I found the stinger in his head), thankfully 5yo wasn't due to quick action, but she was so traumatized she might as well have been.

My wife was sitting on a wall outside (the one in the video) when one landed on her face, she reflexively lifted her hand up and was immediately stung up inside her nose. I got the stinger out with a flashlight and long pointed tweezers. Thankfully all without the kids finding out.

My experience growing up in the country set a kind of benchmark for me for what I thought was "normal" bee numbers and behavior. I don't remember bees walking round on the ground. The bees also flew fairly lazily between the flowers.  Here they're zooming round the yard like little jet planes, sometimes there are clouds of them. Based only on my own experience, it doesn't seem normal, and 6 stings in 6 months also doesn't seem normal. I don't know enough to understand this yet, but given this situation, I need to learn the reason, and then do something about it if I can.

Anyway I am grateful for what I have learned so far.

Regards
RL

I agree with Matt and Phillip, the behavior you have described is not that of bees who are just in the area to forage.  This sounds much more to me like the way bees act at a hive.  I agree that asking your neighbor for her opinion may be very helpful, as it's obviously more difficult for us to diagnose whether the bees are residents or not from just your one video.  But bees crawling in the grass and stinging with minimal provocation sounds much more like a colony living in the wall to me.     
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 15, 2021, 03:12:28 pm
Quote
But bees crawling in the grass and stinging with minimal provocation sounds much more like a colony living in the wall to me.


Member, I totally agree with you and Matt; 'If', the ground stings are occuring next to the block wall area, (whether for drink or now hived). But if the strings are occurring in other areas of the yard, just wondering around in the grass away from a hive without a source of food or drink, this would be very strange behavior indeed.

As far as the bees having an established hive in the blocks, I reiterate Beemaster2s' post #20 concerning bees bringing pollen into the block opening. That in itself should tell the tale..






Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 15, 2021, 04:04:53 pm
RL wishing you and your family the very best in this situation. I look forward to your updates..

Adding thank you very much for joining beemaster, showing you confidence in our forum as a helpful aid in your unique situation and circumstances. Please also feel free to join in the conversation under any other topic that you may have interest. Questions are always encouraged! Who knows; you and your family may someday become beekeepers!!
:grin:


This lady is a beekeeper who has quite a following of children watching her bee chanel.  She has even commented of class rooms anxiously viewing her chanel with thanks. Your family might be interested.

"The Honeystead" on youtube.  Though I am not a subscriber, this lady post videos which are quite interesting, especially for beginners and children.





 
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: The15thMember on September 15, 2021, 06:37:34 pm
Member, I totally agree with you and Matt; 'If', the ground stings are occuring next to the block wall area, (whether for drink or now hived). But if the strings are occurring in other areas of the yard, just wondering around in the grass away from a hive without a source of food or drink, this would be very strange behavior indeed.
I will often see workers and drones wandering around on the ground on the path up to my hives, even a good 25 feet from the hive entrance.  I probably wouldn't have ever noticed them if I didn't have a dirt path, but it seems like a pretty regular occurrence.  I routinely see about one or two a day, and those are just the ones on the path.  I always assumed that perhaps they are bees at the end of their life who can no longer fly.  However, you do have a point.  If stings are occurring, for example, on the other side of the house, then it would be odd if these bees had anything to do with it. 

As far as the bees having an established hive in the blocks, I reiterate Beemaster2s' post #20 concerning bees bringing pollen into the block opening. That in itself should tell the tale.
         
I agree, this is THE test.  Bees will only carry pollen into a cavity like this if they are living there.  If you stand off to the side so you don't interrupt their flight path, you should be able to watch them without them being bothered by your presence.  As long as there are pollen producing plants blooming in your area at this time of year, sooner or later colony will bring pollen into the hive if they are living there.  Here is a picture so you know what to look for.  Notice the pollen pellet on the bee's hind leg.  The pellet can be larger or smaller and of course varies in color based on the pollen the bees are collecting. 

Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 15, 2021, 08:17:19 pm
Member you always post the most awesome pictures.  Another good one!  Thanks
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: The15thMember on September 15, 2021, 09:22:02 pm
Member you always post the most awesome pictures.  Another good one!  Thanks
No problem.  :smile:  I got that one from HoneyBeeSuite.com. 

I forgot to mention that I liked your story about the city slicker who moved to your country town, Phillip.  I can just picture him out there with his edger mourning his lawn!  :cheesy:
Title: Re: What are these bees doing?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 16, 2021, 02:34:36 am
 
I forgot to mention that I liked your story about the city slicker who moved to your country town, Phillip.  I can just picture him out there with his edger mourning his lawn!  :cheesy:

Haa haa thats is funny! "mourning his lawn": he did 'morun' for a day or two I suppose!!