Wiring Deep Frames

[James M. Wagner]

I use two strands of wire on my medium frames, using all the available holes. However, my deep frames have 4 holes on each endbar. In the past, I've used up all of those holes, as well. However, I am now wondering if that is necessary. This gives the deep twice as many strands as a medium, yet the deep is nowhere near twice the height of the medium. Is 4 really necessary? Would 3, or even 2, work just as well? I run foundationless, btw. Thanks. -James Wagner

[Dunkel]

I x wire the frame for deep brood frames.  I use wired foundation though.

[little john]

I 'wire' all my foundationless frames using 60lb monofilament fishing line. It's uber-cheap to use, is one less item I need to buy at inflated beekeeping prices, and makes life very easy should I ever need to cut-out and transfer a nice juicy swarm cell.

3 or 4 turns around a drawing-pin which is then pressed fully home is all it needs to secure it to the side bars with the tension of a badly-tuned banjo.

I run 3 strands across a 9" deep frame, and four across a 12". No need to protect the side-bars with ferrules etc.

LJ

[James M. Wagner]

Thank you to those who have responded to my question and thank you, in advance, to those of you who may be answering in the future. Here is what I have decided to do, at least for today.

I am going to run an experiment (inquiring minds need to know) in which I am wiring up 5 deep frames with 3 strands and 5 frames with only two strands. Bear in mind that these are American deep frames at +/- 9". Numbering the 4 holes from top to bottom, we have holes 1, 2, 3,  and 4. On the 3-strand frames, I am wiring through holes 2, 3, and 4. On the 2-strand frames, I am wiring through holes 2 and 4.

With both options, I have skipped hole #1 entirely as it is only about 3/4" from the sideways-turned wedge.  Once the comb is built around both sides of the wedge, it should be very secure at that point without the wire.

One advantage I am seeing already: the fewer strands run, the easier it is to get good tension. I have a wiring jig that squeezes the end bars. Once wired and released from the jig, wire tension increases. However, with 4 strands, it is still difficult to get good tension. (I do not own a crimping tool, that I know of. There may be one hiding somewhere that I've forgotten but it is not handy at the moment if it exists at all.)

Another POSSIBLE advantage is that with fewer wires, it will be easier to cut out queen cells. We'll see over the next couple of years as the experiment progresses.

Further advantages may come to light over the next couple of years. However, the point may be moot for me as once my supply of eyelets and/or wire is depleted, I intend to switch to monofilament line as suggested by little john and others elsewhere for the sake of cost efficiency and simplicity. With monofilament, it may be just as easy and cheap to wire with 4 strands. Either way, I hope that within a couple of years, there will be at least some anecdotal evidence to indicate whether fewer strands make that much of a negative difference to warrant using 4.

PRELIMINARY RESULTS: (this is simply a hypothesis at this point) It looks as if 2 strands MAY be too flimsy. The frames with 3 strands look as if that will be just about perfect, bearing in mind that the upper end of the comb is attached by a side-turned wedge. I'

[sc-bee]

Heck man I had to look up drawing pin... oh thumb tacks 

[little john]

I know you guys like to see pictures - so - here's a few 9" frames about to be deployed - showing the Drawing Pins (thumb tacks, indeed ...!  )



And here's a couple of home-made 12" deep frames (actually, 'Framed' Top Bars - a subtle difference) showing the extra 'wire' and spaced popsicle stick starters (an experiment - no problems thus far):



And finally - here's a photo I took a few weeks back, when a young lady on another forum said that she couldn't see any point at all in providing 'wires' when running foundationless comb:



Now, I'd say that this comb represents a 'worst-case scenario' - where a new, soft and still very fragile comb has been almost fully drawn, but has not yet been attached, either to the sides, or adequately to the frame's top bar. As you can see, the only point of attachment is a thin line along the edge of the popsicle stick itself. Without some form of additional support, this comb is at risk during movement, especially if nectar is being stored in it. Later, of course, it will be strong enough, but right now those 'wires' are essential. I don't expect Top Bar enthusiasts to agree with me, but then I have never ever had a comb break or collapse. 'nuff said.

LJ

[James M. Wagner]

Great pics, Little John. They actually answer another question...where do you attach the "drawing pins"? I see that it is on the side. I like that. I also like that frame stand.

[sc-bee]

Nice pic indeed... thanks.

[BeeMaster2]

Nice pictures. Iit sure makes it clear as to why you are using them.
Jim

[my-smokepole]

The frames I get only have two hole and they wire fine. Did fishing line and didn't like it.