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Author Topic: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!  (Read 2038 times)

Offline FloridaGardener

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I'm fighting robbers for over two months. I'm doing all I can, short of moving the hive: reduced - then closed - entrances; a wet white sheet; heavy smoke on the robbers; lexan in front of the hive. Moving doesn't work well as explained below. Any other ideas short of building a screened enclosure with a maze entrance?

I'm in the Florida panhandle where we have nectar & pollen even in late autumn. September 3, with expert help, I bought a nuc on Lang frames and tried to move them onto old, clean (frozen), foundationless TBH combs with pollen and some honey.  Due to the difference in bar types, the hive wasn't sealed well, but the colony was defensive and intact for weeks.  Robbing began mid September when I was (ill) advised to remove the Lang frames, set them out, let the colony move over their resources, and then settle on the top bars.  In the ensuing robbing pandemonium, the queen was killed. Too late in the season for natural supercedure, I bought another queen from good stock. They settled on to the bars. I had to feed because they were robbed dry. I used quart feeders inside the tightly closed TBH. The TBH does have an SBB for ventilation, but no direct access underneath. The robbers always appeared en masse within 5 minutes of opening the hive - I had to be quick.

On October 7, a friend brought a cutout from a house removal.  That colony was hived nearby and fed in the same way, having few reserves.  The cutout was immediately attacked by Robbers.  A few days later we had Hurricane Michael pass close by, and my hives went into the garage.  On bringing them out, the Robbers were waiting.  They killed the queen in the cutout colony; again, too late for mating a new queen.

The hurricane passed by us at 50 mph max, but wiped off pollen and nectar.  (And it brought in an abundance of bronchially-irritating red algae.) We're located 60 miles from Michael's main path. I'm hearing reports that robbing is a huge problem now throughout our county. Clouds of wasps are coming above ground because of the flooding, and wiping out strong hives, eating honey and larvae.

What am I missing? I don't feed now; all the bees who died in the Bee War had a chance to stow some reserves in comb. If I move the hive, I'd be even less able to monitor twice daily and shut the one-bee entrance when robbers show, then open it at sunset to let field bees back in.  And there are other marauding bands everywhere!

What about building a robber-proof tent from mosquito netting and showing my foragers how to get in/out? All ideas appreciated, thank you.

Offline beepro

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2018, 06:39:47 pm »
Are both wasps and honey bees robbing your weak colonies?

If only honey bees then I can give you some ideas on this matter.  The robbers are attracted to the smell of sugar syrup.  Have you consider not feeding during the day time?

I only feed during the last hour before the sunset or mostly at night time.  I will only give them a small jar of syrup (honey water) so that by sunrise the jar is completely empty.  At night time the bees and wasps don't fly.  You do have to wear a full bee suit though.

Another option is to feed them patty subs and sugar bricks.  This feeding method will not encourage any robbing.  You can also make the patty subs sweeter too since the bees don't mind.  Usually the robbing will stop within days since there is no syrup for them to rob anymore.  If you don't know how to make the patty subs then I can show you the how to in PMs.   Then you still have the option to combine 2 weak colonies together to make a strong one.

The last option is to start planting wild mustard in the nearby open fields.  This will quickly restore the local bee habitat after the storm.  Within months these will continue to bloom.  Frost cannot kill them and they grow really fast to set out flowers.  Once the local habitat is in balance again then your hives will be safe.  Think of the big picture!

Offline iddee

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2018, 06:43:22 pm »
Search for robbing screens and either buy or make one.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2018, 07:02:30 pm »
Like iddee said robbing screens work great.
But make sure hives are strong , going into winter

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2018, 08:27:58 pm »
Thanks, everyone.  I will make a custom TBH robbing screen.
The cutout colony dwindled to about 200 bees, they're all closed up but I peeked in at sunset.  I don't see the superceded virgin queen there. I thought of giving them a bar of brood to diagnose for sure (if they made supercedure cells from fresh eggs = no queen). But I don't think they could keep brood warm now that we're 40-50 degrees at night.  They're meandering around aimlessly with nothing to do.  If I was absolutely sure about no virgin queen, I'd newspaper-combine them to the colony that was attacked today. I've checked three times and not seen her but I do not want to be wrong, she may be more agile than my good queen, and win! I'm open to suggestions on confirming her disappearance. I'd appreciate that, thanks.

Beepro, thanks for the idea about the wild mustard ! ! My neighbors will think it blew in from the storm when I plant it in the 20-acre natural recreational easement - lol! 
I'd stopped feeding last week, before the big showdown 3 days ago.  It's a great idea about filling feeders at sunset, or using sugar bricks.  For pollen sub, I use dry brewers yeast 50-50 w/cane sugar, a pinch of salt and a Vitamin C.  What do you think?

It's definitely bees who are robbing them, but there are a lot of new wasps in the air and yard here.  And other weird bugs.

Offline beepro

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2018, 07:00:07 pm »
I think you should PM me for my secret bee feed formula with more natural ingredients added other than just brewer's yeast. But whatever works for you and the bees is fine with me. 

I need to let you know that wild mustard and canola is very invasive here.  Once you put them in you cannot get rid of them.  Yes, they will take over your entire 20 acres over time, for sure.

With 200 bees this hive cannot make it through the winter. Saving a dwindling hive with bee resources from another hive is wasteful.  There might be another attack on your weak hive.  Better to take care of your existing hive.  Then next season you can make splits for more new queens.  I would combine the 200 bees in to the next stronger colony.  The bees will choose their strongest mated queen unless there is a virgin inside.  So combining is safe if you do it gradually.  I once combined 3 weak hives in to one in mid-Nov to make it stronger for overwintering.   Now is the time to do a combine!

Offline MikeyN.C.

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 03:03:58 pm »
If you're TOP BAR ? hive is long(20 frames)
With out a petition board . if you get really cold in your area , doesn't sound good to me, but i'm a newbeek. Is it possible you could 5 frame nuc these bees???

Offline beepro

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 07:37:30 pm »
Mike, entering winter mode, it doesn't matter how many bars or frames you have. The
bees will automatically enter their cluster mode to stay warm.  They will use 5 frames  if they have to during the winter. 
This is call their winter hive contraction period. Of course, using a partition board will keep the heat in much closer to the small cluster.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 09:06:57 pm »
Yes, I am waiting just a few more days before a newspaper-combine,  to see if I get a laying worker.  Because I don't have a queen excluder, that's my only diagnosis technique at this point, to confirm that there's no virgin queen with the 200 bees.  I haven't seen her in 3 checks, but I want to be absolutely sure.

Unless someone else has a technique to be sure on that? I peeked today, and there is no more brood of any kind. So multiple eggs in one cells means no virgin queen. The laying worker should stop as soon as she smells the queen pheromone, I think.

The 200 actually will benefit the other colony because they're mostly new bees, and can "beg in" with a few bars heavy with honey/pollen.

And they are quite cosy locked in there, there is a cedar-shaving quilt box on top  :)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 09:23:15 am by FloridaGardener »

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2018, 03:08:25 am »
200 bees?
That?s nothing!
Take your box a little away, shake or brush the bees on the ground (flight weather).
The entrance to the hive must be closed. Don`t let other bees rob the empty hive.
Sound ones will find the other hive. Sick ones die.

Offline robirot

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 10:47:52 am »
Add a robing screen, lexan doesn't hell, you need the screen.

Keep feeding. The Problem you habe is a weak colony.

Your best bet would have been to combine your hive with the cutout, but it's to Lage for that now. Can you maybe buy 1-2 pound of bulk bees to add to your hives?

What you describe is a serious state of robbing, normally a hive that get's robbed hard like yours should be brushed off in front of other hives and been discontinued. But since this is your only hive.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2018, 09:18:14 pm »
Robbing screen went on yesterday.  No bees flying today - too cold.  Screen is shown with top exit latched.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2018, 09:28:15 pm »
And seeing no queen for the fourth time, I did a newspaper-combine for the 200 bees and their resources today. 

Incidentally, once all my bees in the recovering colony were locked in at sundown - before I had time to make the screen - this mosquito netting was a quick-to-make trap.  I set it up like netting over a bed in a tropical country, but instead of 100% coverage,  I left a 1 ft gap.  The gap let them in, but they had trouble finding a way out. 

When Robbers showed up the next morning, all my bees were safely locked inside, but lots of Robbers got trapped. Those particular Robbers won't be coming back!




Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2018, 06:10:17 pm »
Well Friends, after a chill, we had flying weather today.  Robbers are back and only one got IN the screen, but the problem is only a few of the girls found the hatch.  So I taped cardboard over it hoping they would "see the light" and go up.  Not very successful. A few got out, hope they get back in tonight.

Any tips on helping them adjust to their new porch?  There's plenty of room, that's a 1" thick frame.  I even backed out the screws and gapped it.  Thanks so much, I appreciate it.

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2018, 07:40:10 pm »
It takes time for them to figure it out but if you let them out, they will probably not bee able to find the secret door to get back in. Keep in mind, some of the bees will stay behind that screen on guard duty.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2018, 09:13:09 pm »
Thank you! Can the undertakers make the turn upwards to drag their burdens?  I copied the design from an example at Cassandra'sBees, and never thought about them laboring uphill so far.

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Re: Stopping Chronic Robbing after Hurricane Michael. They just don't quit!
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2018, 11:39:03 pm »
Pull up a chair and watch them for a while. They will probably end up leaving them behind the screen. Eventually they will get them out.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin