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Author Topic: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?  (Read 75374 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #800 on: May 10, 2024, 11:25:37 am »
Terri I do not remember if you have mentioned queen cells, (since you are new and taking in a lot of information), I will ask, have you mentioned seeing queen cells in your mentors hive?

Phillip
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Online Terri Yaki

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #801 on: May 10, 2024, 11:37:28 am »
Terri I do not remember if you have mentioned queen cells, (since you are new and taking in a lot of information), I will ask, have you mentioned seeing queen cells in your mentors hive?

Phillip
Not yet but I haven't been there since I got my hive mid April. He said he did lose a swarm so I expect that he does have them. I think it's next Saturday he's supposed to do some manipulations and I've been invited to attend so I'll be on the lookout for them then. I was looking for them in my hive inspections and didn't see anything that looked suspicious. I'm pretty happy with how fast my colony is growing but for all I know, it might be slow by comparison.

Online The15thMember

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #802 on: May 10, 2024, 06:59:49 pm »
I inspected most of my small colonies today.  Most needed another box, and I did a sugar roll in the largest colony and only 1/300 so that's good.  I was worried because the bees in there are kind of over-groomed looking, but I think it's just that they are old because this hive is coming off a brood break.  I also got some pictures of Queen Tiana.  I've never had a queen this dark.  I have several tiger-striped queens, but she is all black.  (Sorry the picture quality isn't better, I had my phone in a plastic baggie to protect it from propolis.)       
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Terri Yaki

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #803 on: May 10, 2024, 08:15:35 pm »
Obviously, you have confidence in the sugar roll method but I have heard others express differing positions on it. I'd like to know more about the pros and cons on it. Or the whys and why nots, however you want to put it. What causes a brood break and how long do they last? And lastly, we are still having spring here so our weather is above and below bee flying weather. What do they all do in there when they have no-fly days?

Online The15thMember

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #804 on: May 10, 2024, 08:42:56 pm »
Obviously, you have confidence in the sugar roll method but I have heard others express differing positions on it. I'd like to know more about the pros and cons on it. Or the whys and why nots, however you want to put it.
A sugar roll is not as accurate as an alcohol wash, so I multiply my results by 1.3 to make up for that difference in accuracy.  I find the sugar roll easier and it doesn't require me to kill bees, so I prefer it.  I like to do sugar rolls regularly because I'm someone who likes data, but I'm honestly moving away from treating based on sugar roll numbers alone.  I'd rather treat colonies with high mite loads who also are showing signs of stress, because I'm trying to breed for not only resistant bees but resilient bees.  That's my take on it anyway. 

What causes a brood break and how long do they last?
   
Anything that causes the colony to be queenless, and therefore broodless, for long enough that all the capped brood has emerged causes a brood break.  In this case, the queen in this colony had become a drone layer over the winter, so I pulled her in my first inspection of the year, but for some reason it took several weeks of me adding donor frames of eggs before they made a new queen, and therefore their population got very low.  I debated combining them with someone else, but it's early enough in the season that I decided to just let them go. 

And lastly, we are still having spring here so our weather is above and below bee flying weather. What do they all do in there when they have no-fly days?
Well the bees who are of inside work age just do their inside work like always.  I'm not sure about foragers, but I'd guess they will sometimes just rest or maybe help with guard duty.  I opened a hive once on a rainy day, I can't remember why, and there was a cluster of bees just hanging on the underside of the lid, who I think were foragers just hanging out there because they couldn't go outside.
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #805 on: May 11, 2024, 12:24:16 am »
Obviously, you have confidence in the sugar roll method but I have heard others express differing positions on it. I'd like to know more about the pros and cons on it.
I use Dawn dish detergent for a mite wash. 2 tbls. per gallon of water.  Sugar rolls are not accurate.  Just swirl the bees, dont shake or it gets too soapy.  Sampling 300 bees for 6 months is only 1800 bees per colony, thats nothing.  More bees die daily from attrition and the sampling saves hundreds of thousands of bees or more in my apiary.
What causes a brood break and how long do they last?

Splits, swarms, or forced brood breaks by caging the queen 14 days.  They last as long as there is no capped brood for mites to hide in for an OA treatment.
And lastly, we are still having spring here so our weather is above and below bee flying weather. What do they all do in there when they have no-fly days?
I use slatted racks, so on no fly days, or overnight, foragers will typically cluster under the rack unless its hot out, then they will cluster on the outside of the hive even in the rain.

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Online Lesgold

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #806 on: May 11, 2024, 05:23:56 am »
An interesting comment about sugar roll tests. We were told at a recent varroa course that sugar roll tests were fatal to bees but their death is slow and is not obvious. From memory they said that the bees spiracles were blocked by the powdered sugar and it took a few days for the bees to slowly die from suffocation. I have never heard of this before but have no reason to doubt what they are saying as they are experts in this field. I?m wondering if anyone has any information in relation to this area. Most of you on this forum deal with the pest on a daily and would be well informed on such things. I only perform alcohol wash tests as it is quicker and gives more accurate results which is important in the early stages of varroa spread.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #807 on: May 11, 2024, 06:25:06 am »
I have heard a similar report Les concerning sugar rolls, but I do not have that report handy. Nor do I know if that report is accurate. Your opinion of the alcohol wash is an opinion I share as well.
quoting you: I only perform alcohol wash tests as it is quicker and gives more accurate results which is important in the early stages of varroa spread.

TheHoneyPump also VERY knowledgeable about varroa preferred the Alcohol wash for obvious reasons. He was from a 7th generation bee keeping family whose family business depends upon up to date knowledge in all aspects of bee health. A family which produces not only an astronomical amount of honey each year, but thousands of pounds of wax in his Country, Canada!

For the sake of those who do not like the idea of killing their bees, he humored us with patience and kindness, giving us a formula for the sugar roll. I do not know if he was aware of the implications that sugar rolls also kill bees?

I highly recommend the following, written by him, to all my Australian Beekeeping Friends concerning Varro Destructor.

Phillip


https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=54623.msg497375#msg497375

2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #808 on: May 11, 2024, 11:22:48 am »
An interesting comment about sugar roll tests. We were told at a recent varroa course that sugar roll tests were fatal to bees but their death is slow and is not obvious. From memory they said that the bees spiracles were blocked by the powdered sugar and it took a few days for the bees to slowly die from suffocation. I have never heard of this before but have no reason to doubt what they are saying as they are experts in this field. I?m wondering if anyone has any information in relation to this area. Most of you on this forum deal with the pest on a daily and would be well informed on such things. I only perform alcohol wash tests as it is quicker and gives more accurate results which is important in the early stages of varroa spread.
From personal experience bees shaken/rolled in a jar of powdered sugar is a slow death.  Detergent is quick, effective, cheap, and a bit messy when Im sampling a lot of hives. I just keep a small bucket a water to rinse off. Alcohol works great too.  Its just a matter of preference.
https://scientificbeekeeping.com/?s=refining+mite+wash
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

Online The15thMember

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #809 on: May 11, 2024, 12:08:28 pm »
From personal experience bees shaken/rolled in a jar of powdered sugar is a slow death.  Detergent is quick, effective, cheap, and a bit messy when Im sampling a lot of hives. I just keep a small bucket a water to rinse off. Alcohol works great too.  Its just a matter of preference.
https://scientificbeekeeping.com/?s=refining+mite+wash
I'm confused, in Randy Oliver's experiment he says the bees survived the sugar roll when he returned them to the hive.  Also, my bees don't look anywhere near that beat up coming out of the jar.  Most of them just fan a bit, and their sisters come and clean them off.       
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline beesnweeds

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #810 on: May 11, 2024, 12:42:24 pm »
I'm confused,       
Don't be, like I said its personal experience.  Ive done a lot of sugar rolls with mixed results and observed that some bees do die after the test.  Most people just dont hang around their hives for hours to see workers dragging out the dead bees.  I know it's considered non lethal which is good to get beekeepers to test.  I used alcohol/soap on the same bees after a sugar test and the mite counts doubled a few times. Not good.  Sampling 300 bees to save all the rest over the winter is well worth it.  Like Mr. Spock said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."  May your bees live long and prosper.
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

Online Terri Yaki

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #811 on: May 11, 2024, 01:31:51 pm »
I peeked inside the portals on my hives and saw condensation in the top two boxes, I didn't open the lower box because there were some ant cruising around and they have the bottom one sealed up. Anyhow, is that condensation a problem? I was cool last night and warmed up quicky this morning. I have not checked back to see if it's still there but I will.

Online The15thMember

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #812 on: May 11, 2024, 02:21:38 pm »
It can be a problem, but a little condensation is probably normal.  I mean, most hives don't have portals like yours, and the wood is a bit more absorbent, so I wouldn't be too concerned if it's just forming on the windows.  What you don't want is water dripping down on the bees from the lid, but I don't think even that is a huge deal provided the bees aren't clustered because of the cold.  As I've mentioned, my climate is very humid, and I don't have any trouble with condensation causing problems (except for mold) in the summer.  If I see condensation I think is excessive, then I just open the entrance more or otherwise give the bees a little more ventilation.     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #813 on: May 11, 2024, 10:05:06 pm »
So if the bees are alive when returned to the hive, what does that really mean, unless you marked them, tagged them and actually knew how old they were before being returned?

Come on guys/gals think about it.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #814 on: May 12, 2024, 12:28:44 am »

> So if the bees are alive when returned to the hive, what does that really mean, unless you marked them, tagged them and actually knew how old they were before being .

Good question which makes a good point  Bill. I would think the only way to verify the accuracy of this type test and resulting situation is to mark each bee as you stated. Any-thing less would be pure speculation in my opinion. I am not a bee researcher but if I was, I would think this approach would be the number one objective in receiving an >accurate< answer.

Phillip
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Lesgold

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #815 on: May 12, 2024, 02:01:31 am »
Have a look at some research done by Dr. Kamran Fakhimzadeh of the Florida University. He actually looked at this and you should be able to find some answers from what showed up in his experiments.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #816 on: May 12, 2024, 08:11:09 am »
Terri,
Bees use that condensation as a water source during cond weather to dilute the honey. It is not a bad thing.
Jim Altmiller
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Offline beesnweeds

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #817 on: May 12, 2024, 02:53:47 pm »
I peeked inside the portals on my hives and saw condensation in the top two boxes, I didn't open the lower box because there were some ant cruising around and they have the bottom one sealed up. Anyhow, is that condensation a problem? I was cool last night and warmed up quicky this morning. I have not checked back to see if it's still there but I will.
Thats normal when you're feeding 1:1 sugar syrup.  It's a problem in the fall, thats why 2:1 is recommended for fall feeding.  As the stores dry out it creates condensation.  When your colony builds up to the configuration you want to overwinter in, 2 deeps or 3 mediums in your area, you can stop feeding and add a honey super.  Right now, when you inspect you are seeing stored sugar syrup, not nectar or honey.   
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

Online Lesgold

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #818 on: Today at 01:04:48 am »
It's the first dry day for over a week so it was the perfect opportunity to recycle some frames from a couple of dead outs that have been sitting around getting infested with wax moth. Got the fire cranked up with some pallet off cuts and loaded the first box of frames into the steamer. Some of the frames were heavily infested so a nice little cook with some steam will help to solve the problem. I?ll leave them in the steamer for about half an hour or so which will then make the frames easy to scrape clean. The residue will be fed into the worm farms where it will be broken down into compost.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?
« Reply #819 on: Today at 05:16:52 am »
All these people talking about murdering bees... I'm triggered.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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