Feeding in Fall/Winter

[Caribou]

Around here many beekeepers dump their bees out in the fall when they harvest the honey.  I hope to get a couple of these hives.  My goal is two fold.  First, If I can get them to survive the winter I'll have an early start and if one in three survive I'll break even.  Second, if they draw comb I can break even on that alone. 

There is a bonus of giving the ladies a chance.

I plan on giving each hive a frame of honey to start but should I also plan on feeding sugar?  I won't have enough honey to feed them all winter on that.

[little john]

So many questions from this end ...

Could you clarify in what form you're hoping to acquire these bees ?  On their existing brood combs, as intact colonies, hopefully ?

Will you have any stores combs available to use, albeit empty ?  If so, then syrup - as thick as you can make it - would seem to be the obvious solution (sorry about the pun).  After digestion, honey leaves solid matter behind which then builds-up within the bees during their long period of confinement, whereas sugar syrup does not add to this problem to the same degree.

How many weeks are you likely to have to work with, between acquiring the bees and the weather closing in ?

What over-wintering strategy (housing, insulation etc) are you planning on using - bearing in mind the depth and duration of the Alaskan winter ?

It might be worth contacting someone like Michael Palmer for advice, as he is well used to overwintering in cold conditions for long periods - although not perhaps as extreme as your own conditions will no doubt be.  Maybe there are local beekeepers who over-winter, who might pass on a few tips ?

Very best of luck with this - it sounds like a very interesting challenge ...

LJ

[Caribou]

I could certainly add a frame of comb to get them started but I want to get drawn comb out of this deal as I hope to expand next year.  If I can wind up with bees and comb in the spring I will really win. 

Friends of mine had good luck with a layer of Reflectix around the exterior.  Just make sure to keep ventilation.  One of the local commercial guys likes the foam hives.  He gets 70% to 80% survival of his hives.  I haven't been converted to that yet.

Early to mid August is the typical harvest.  We could see our first frost in September but probably October.  We are not too far from the ocean so our winters are typically above zero.  We can see -20F for a couple weeks on a cold winter. 

[Michael Bush]

They will need capped stores to get through the winter.  If they are dumping them at the end of the season, they will have none.  Feeding syrup at that point usually causes moisture problems.  It is a dilemma.  If you have other colonies then i would try to have extra honey to give them right off the bat.  If you have enough capped stores to give them, they should have a good chance of overwintering.

[GSF]

I'm very much not familiar with keeping bees in extreme cold climates. It would seem you, as a beekeeper, would be at the mercy of those who sells packages. When you say dump, do you mean loddie dottie and everybody homeless?

My hat's off to anyone attempting to raise bees in the northern climates.

[Caribou]

I'm very much not familiar with keeping bees in extreme cold climates. It would seem you, as a beekeeper, would be at the mercy of those who sells packages. When you say dump, do you mean loddie dottie and everybody homeless?

My hat's off to anyone attempting to raise bees in the northern climates.

When I say dump I do mean homeless, like shake them out in the snow homeless.  Actually most dumps/shake outs occur before the snow but after the last nectar.

People here that don't winter over often pick Italians but if they change their minds the Italians take more sugar.  I have Buckfast and Russian which are supposed to winter well.  Many here have Carniolans.

[little john]

I'm very much not familiar with keeping bees in extreme cold climates. It would seem you, as a beekeeper, would be at the mercy of those who sells packages. When you say dump, do you mean loddie dottie and everybody homeless?

My hat's off to anyone attempting to raise bees in the northern climates.

When I say dump I do mean homeless, like shake them out in the snow homeless.  Actually most dumps/shake outs occur before the snow but after the last nectar.

That puts a very different complexion on your challenge ...

If you're not even getting bees on their existing combs, I don't really see any possibility of a rescue.  The only possibility I can see here (and I'm fairly lukewarm about this ... ) - is to make contact with one of these operations and make them a (say) 1 in 5 deal.  That is: they supply you with 5 hives, absolutely intact - in the same condition in which they finished the season - and you agree to supply them with one colony, alive and well, at the beginning of next season, along with the remaining 4 empty hives.  If they need to do maintenance on the boxes over winter, you could accept 'bees on frames' on the same basis.  But you MUST have combs, at minimum.

Regarding winter feed - this is where you have your work cut out - very heavy syrup initially, followed by fondant and/or dry sugar.  You might also need to provide some background heat, in order to access feed which won't be ideally placed (i.e. in the combs).

I'm sure it's possible - on something like a '1 in 5'-type basis - but over-wintering bees in your region is going to be extremely difficult at the best of times, let alone without adequate quantities of capped stores ahead of time.

Very best of luck if you decide to try this,
LJ

[Caribou]

Thanks LJ.  One of my goals is to get more drawn comb out of the deal so I really don't want to give them more than a frame of that.  At this point the honey is not an issue as I need little for myself. I can leave them a frame or two of that to get started depending on how many hives I wind up with. 

What is the deal on feeding dry sugar?  One of my concerns is too much moisture in the hive as that is a killer up here.

The process, as I understand it, is to move the original hive, place my hive in that location, shake as many bees into my box as possible, come back after dark a couple days later, close up the hive and move it to my place.  Another option might be to buy a bee vacuum.

[Michael Bush]

>What is the deal on feeding dry sugar?  One of my concerns is too much moisture in the hive as that is a killer up here.

They tend to eat dry sugar when they are hungry.  With syrup they want to store it.  If your main goal is to get drawn comb, then I would feed syrup.  If your main goal is to get them through the winter, I would try to have capped honey for them and supplement with dry sugar as needed.