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Author Topic: At what percentage of Africanized genetics do bees begin to calm down?  (Read 230 times)

Offline Ben Framed

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One of our members posted of bees with Africanized genetics of 83 percent being shipped to various places in the US. I am wondering at what precent does the bees begin to calm down to a reasonable manageable attitude of domestication. Anyone know the answer?


Quote Van from Arkansas
>African bees.  The source is Arizona: with a large apiary that tested 83% African genetics which is maintained and queens shipped to many states due to advertising of Varroa tolerant bees.  The apiary does not inform the public of the AFB heritage.  Of course there are spin offs of bees, swarms, from innocent beeks that purchase bees/queens from this particular apiary that has spread to Florida and California to Nebraska and Arkansas, my state.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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There is an Apiary in Texas that has stated that their bees have 10% African genes, and over the years I have bought 36 queens from them.  I made purchases of 12 queens on 3 occasions, several years apart.  After the queens had gone through 2 brood cycles and their bees were the only ones in the hives I decided I would have to cull because of temper.  Of the 36 queens I killed 33 and kept 3.

I live in a subdivision with neighbors with children and I won't tolerate bees with an attitude.  I gave the Texas bees a fair test and I have decided to never buy from them again.  I have kept Russians with no problems, in fact most of them are as docile as the Italians I have had.  I plan to go to a Russian/Carniolan mix this year and see how they are.  I may try to find a good Caucasian to add to the mix.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Norvel, hello again.  Yes Sir, you manage your bees very well.  Your bees are calm, very well behaved and prolific.  The queen I obtained from you was a non-stop layer.  Lol,  she worked me continuously to provide the lil gal with room to lay.  Hard to keep up with your queens.  A good problem to have IMHO.

Ten percent genetic identity with African honeybees is worrisome.  I did not realize so little was so much.

Van
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 02:07:40 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline rast

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"There is an Apiary in Texas that has stated that their bees have 10% African genes,"     Unfortunately, in todays world we have to wonder what the actual percentage really is. 33 of 36 is more than a coincidence of mean genetics.   
Fools argue; wise men discuss.
    --Paramahansa Yogananda

Offline Ben Framed

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There is an Apiary in Texas that has stated that their bees have 10% African genes, and over the years I have bought 36 queens from them.  I made purchases of 12 queens on 3 occasions, several years apart.  After the queens had gone through 2 brood cycles and their bees were the only ones in the hives I decided I would have to cull because of temper.  Of the 36 queens I killed 33 and kept 3.

I live in a subdivision with neighbors with children and I won't tolerate bees with an attitude.  I gave the Texas bees a fair test and I have decided to never buy from them again.  I have kept Russians with no problems, in fact most of them are as docile as the Italians I have had.  I plan to go to a Russian/Carniolan mix this year and see how they are.  I may try to find a good Caucasian to add to the mix.


Thanks for your insight to what can be expected with only 10 percent Mr AR. Rast thanks for your input as well, your point is well taken also. Taking your answers into consideration, I would like to ask, especially in your situation Mr AR relying on your experience with the African problem and have fixed it; When is the best time to re-queen in such a situation as you have described? Hopefully most of us will not experience the problems that you have ran into, but it is comforting to know, you know you were able to fix that problem. Thanks
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online FatherMichael

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Dr. Seely compared pre-mite populations in Upstate New York and found that bees in the wild there now have African genes.

He had 70s era bees from his early research and sent them off to a lab along with samples of contemporary bees.

Genetics depends on generations, which I suppose could be expressed in percentages.

But if one does the math it is almost impossible to correlate ancestry in a multilineage population.

Besides, there are "gentle" lineages that can produce wicked bees.

There's a supplier here in Texas I would not buy bees from if my life depended on it.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 05:50:58 pm by FatherMichael »
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Ben,  I gave the queens two brood cycles to be sure I was dealing only with their offspring, so I would say that 6 to 7 weeks after installing the queen will tell if there is an attitude problem.  I had on hand nucs with queens I had raised in the spring, so it was just a matter of pinching the queen and installing the nuc.  Those bees would meet me at the back door and often would sting before I walked the 50 yards to the apiary.  I could work them with smoke and full protection, but my other colonies I was able to work with little or no smoke and no vail.  Why have bees that are hard to work, a hobby is all about fun.


Offline Ben Framed

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Ben,  I gave the queens two brood cycles to be sure I was dealing only with their offspring, so I would say that 6 to 7 weeks after installing the queen will tell if there is an attitude problem.  I had on hand nucs with queens I had raised in the spring, so it was just a matter of pinching the queen and installing the nuc.  Those bees would meet me at the back door and often would sting before I walked the 50 yards to the apiary.  I could work them with smoke and full protection, but my other colonies I was able to work with little or no smoke and no vail.  Why have bees that are hard to work, a hobby is all about fun.



Thanks for the good information.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Ben Framed

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> Dr. Seely discovered that the mite killed off pre-mite populations in Upstate New York and that bees in the wild there now have African genes.

Thanks Dr Seely put out some interesting information...
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.