Post by: Bob Wilson on April 04, 2021, 12:14:25 am
Post by: rothbart on April 04, 2021, 03:37:44 am
Since eggs are spaced in time, the second swarm can happen after 10 days if there
is still many bees. In that case bees keep the virgin from killing cells and feed the
third queen trough hole in the cell. Then you hear pipping in two different pitch, since
one is in cell, and one is out angry.
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 04, 2021, 08:22:04 pm
Post by: BeeMaster2 on April 04, 2021, 09:28:41 pm
Queens piping
If you hear queens piping, that means that the bees are holding the queens in there cells so that they can super swarm (swarm over and over again). When this is allowed to happen, there is a good chance that the original hive will not survive.
Smoke the hive lightly wait 10 minutes, find at least 10 to 15 queen cages, smoke again lightly, wait 30 seconds and then slowly inspect every frame and carefully open the queen cells. Place the queens in the cages. Go through the entire hive and find every Q cell. Pick the best one and put it back in the hive. If it is a very large hive you can make up a couple of splits. If you disturb the bees too much, they will stop tending to keep the queens in the cells and the queens will all hatch out in mass. If that happens, work fast to catch them all.
Have a small jar of alcohol ready to put any dead queens into. Use the alcohol for swarm traps.
Good luck.
I learned this from my observation hive swarming over and over. I open it on the third swarm and found 10 queens and I missed the one that ended up killing the marked one that I put back in the hive.
Jim Altmiller
Post by: Bob Wilson on April 05, 2021, 07:01:04 pm
I did as you suggested and shook every single frame, in all three of my three of my swarming hives. I removed appr. 30 queen cells.
Most were older, empty cells. Some were sealed, but empty or dead. 5-6 were viable, and the queens started emerging after I put them in a little container I had on hand. They are now in my tiny alcohol bottle.
I left the best cell in each hive, although I worry that they might be empty or duds like some of the sealed ones that I removed. One of the queens chewed her way out and went loose in the hive. However, it was the selected cell I had set aside to keep, so all is well.
How long should I wait before checking for eggs? 2 weeks to harden, mate, and start laying?
Post by: Bob Wilson on April 05, 2021, 07:08:14 pm
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 05, 2021, 09:04:34 pm
Post by: BeeMaster2 on April 06, 2021, 09:58:16 am
Glad it worked out.
I would give them 3 weeks. It takes up to 11 days after they hatch to start laying and then you want to give her time to have a lot of brood before you disturb them.
Jim Altmiller
Post by: TheHoneyPump on April 06, 2021, 10:24:16 pm
If I found sealed queen cells in two of my hives on the 21st of March, should I be hearing queen piping and still see multiple closed queen cells on frames today, thirteen days later? It's only 16 days from egg to emergent queen.
... Based on my experiences in tracking and purposefully observing many mating nucs and swarm hives ....
There would be piping between days 5 and 7 from when you saw the capped cells. The piping will happen in the morning. Not real early but not late either. Between 8am and 10am. It will be all over before noon and the carcasses tossed out by the evening. To get to see/hear it you need to know it is going to be happening and make a point of being nearby during those times.
After the fight is done, there should be eggs in there 8 to 16 days later. That is assuming favourable flying weather, that the queen left was not seriously injured in the Battle Royale, and that predators do not catch her during her outings.
Hope that helps!
Post by: Bob Wilson on April 07, 2021, 12:03:42 am
However, part of the problem is multiple swarms.
When you see swarm cells in a hive, do you shake the frames and cull all but the best QC, or do you let the multiple emerging queens battle it out themselves, knowing that some of the virgin queens might also swarm, and leave a depleted hive.
Post by: TheHoneyPump on April 07, 2021, 01:17:23 pm
If I have good record of the hive and confidence in the timing of the cells, I will go the day of or day before and attempt to catch and cage the emerging queens. Open the caps with a sharp pick and walk her out directly into a cage. Stuff at least 9 nearby nurse bees in the cage with her, and a drop of honey/beebread in the cage.
If I am not confident, I will cut out or squash all but two cells that are close to each other on the same frame. First out will win. Leave undisturbed and come back 2 weeks later to see what happened.
Post by: TheHoneyPump on April 07, 2021, 01:17:54 pm
Post by: Brian MCquilkin on April 07, 2021, 04:46:41 pm
...
love this extra virgin queens for mating nucs, splits, or anything else you need an extra queen for
Post by: TheHoneyPump on April 10, 2021, 02:23:09 am
For best results cage them, bank them, and then try to get them into a mating nuc within a week.
Post by: Brian MCquilkin on April 10, 2021, 11:27:47 pm
You can keep those caught virgins caged with attendants banked in a queenrite hive above a queen excluder for up to 10 days and still be successful. Much beyond 10 it seems their desire to go out to mate diminishes and the rate of flight losses or drone layers goes up sharply.Thanks, Hp appreciate the good info.
For best results cage them, bank them, and then try to get them into a mating nuc within a week.