About chalkbrood, robbing, and combining

[mtnb]

Hi guys. I have a hive that was a split. They've been struggling with chalkbrood for a while but it's looking like it's clearing up. Today they have very spotty brood, some capped, some open larvae, no eggs. Last week I gave them a frame of brood and now they're feeding 3 queens on that frame. Plus today they're getting robbed. I put on a robber screen and am hoping that will stop the frenzy.

I have another hive that was a nuc and is now in an 8 frame deep. I should never have taken that nuc for when I transferred the very last frame into my own box, I noticed a supercedure cell. I took them anyway. Another lesson learned. They have not liked any of the queens they've made, nor the one I gave them. They keep building supercedure cells. On the 8th, I peeked in and saw two queens in open cells ready to emerge. It was sooooo cool! I was struggling with what I shoul do when I saw them and even considered taking one of those queens and putting it into my chalkbrood hive but decided against it since this hive has been so picky. I decided to close it up and let them figure it out.

I would like to combine those two hives once the robbing has stopped in the chalkbrood hive. Is this feasible or will the other hive get chalkbrood too? I have read that it can get transferred to other hives...also, will those robbers take the chalkbrood back to their own hives? It's a fungus, right?

What is your guys' advice in my situation?

[BeeMaster2]

MT,
The standard treatment for chalk brood it to requeen. Sounds like the bees did that. The other thing that corrects chalkbrood is a good flow.
I would give the new queen a chance. From what is experienced, the bees, when given a chance, will select a queen that has the genetics to correct the problem. All the more reason to give a new queen a chance.
Jim

[eltalia]

No hijack, more of an expansion of topic I ask;
Is there evidence of any scale of reinfestation of the CB fungus after
seeing it 'gone'?
or....
Where the ground surround is treated with fungicide and generations
evolve with no CB regeneration is it 'safe' to say the fungus has been
beaten in that immediate area?

Cheers.

Bill

[Michael Bush]

I don't think chalkbrood spores are the root cause.  They are irrelevant.  The things that are relevant are genetics and chilled brood.

[Acebird]

The things that are relevant are genetics and chilled brood.

When I was in Billings in May the fields were green and full of flowers from the snow melt.  In July what is it like?  I am wondering if nutrition has anything to do with it being a weak hive.

[Hops Brewster]

I'm sure nutrition has a lot to do with it.  Well-fed bees are always the healthiest IMO.  In my own hives, I have only seen chalk brood in the weak ones.  Improved nectar flow (nutrition), along with warmer, drier weather have eliminated the springtime symptoms of CB in mine.  Feeding syrup didn't seem to help in this case, but natural resources did seem to help.  purely subjective observation.
One of the 2 superceded, and that one cleared up the CB soonest.

[mtnb]

Mr. Bush. Genetics are good. I gave them a Sam Comfort queen. Chilled brood? Meaning not enough bees in the hive?

Brian, it's been super rainy and wet this year. May and June were green and even still a little although the landscape looks mostly brown now. Still getting storms though too. I'm close to alfalfa fields and now the mustard is out, the prickly pears have been blooming, goatsbeard, wild sunflowers, clover and don't know what else ... When I split, I put a mason jar of SW on them which I noticed leaked and was dripping out the entrance. Could that have caused the fungus? I removed it (they weren't taking it) and ventilated better and it's clearing.

I guess the reason I wanted to combine the two is because it's getting so late in the season and the other supercedure hive is so much further ahead.

Thanks also hops.  Makes sense.

[eltalia]

"I don't think chalkbrood spores are the root cause"

Cause or origin Michael?
I can live with the thought of brood temp, and even relative humidity of
the hive space as both we know are prime factors in colony survival, but
thinking the presence of spores is not relevant where housekeeping genetics
are introduced/maintained? Not so sure about that premise, Michael :-)

So far I only know know what I have read and seen for myself in this
single colony, a total measure of nought.
But riddle me this... were one to cavort buck nekkid in a Thai monsoon
one windy afternoon, to arise the next riddled with Asian Flu... was it the
lack of resistant genes, lack of warm clothing, or the resident airbone virus
that brought one undone :-)

Cheers.

Bill

[Michael Bush]

>Meaning not enough bees in the hive?

Sort of.  Meaning not enough bees in the hive for the cold snap after they expanded the brood nest too far.

>But riddle me this... were one to cavort buck nekkid in a Thai monsoon
one windy afternoon, to arise the next riddled with Asian Flu... was it the
lack of resistant genes, lack of warm clothing, or the resident airbone virus
that brought one undone :-)

Cold has nothing to do with the flu other than forcing people inside.  The flu is always passing around.  The underlying cause of getting the flu is lack of resistance.  We live in a sea of microbes.  It's not the microbes that make us sick.  In fact, it's the microbes that make us healthy...

[eltalia]

"In fact, it's the microbes that make us healthy..."

Healthier babies have eaten dirt, we know that. And yet
without triple antigen/polio/smallpox/Hep-C shots
many of us would not get to reproduce.
A beliver in building immunitiy levels I also question the
wisdom of denying breaking life cycles of known organisms
in favour of "breeding in" supposed genetic traits.

Chalkbrood has to be a localised fungus, put about by
stores/equipment transfers between colonies?
I have read some who say CB is also carried within the
bee body. Given a specific set of circumstance I could accept
spore carriage by the skeleton of a bee, but internaly and so
requiring immunity?
Would such not mean CB events would be as big a deal as
EFB/AFB in zones where CB has been notified?

Cheers.

Bill