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Author Topic: Strange behavior  (Read 3994 times)

Offline LizzieBee

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Strange behavior
« on: April 18, 2018, 10:19:28 pm »
I was sitting next to my beehive, watching the bees, when I noticed three on the ground, shaking, and one was walking in circles. I picked one up and it continued to shake and wobble around. Were they at the end of their life? Were they cold? This is a brand new hive that came from a package almost two weeks ago. The rest of the hive from the outside looks great, there are lots of bees bringing pollen, and quite a few going out to forage. They drink about 4 cups of syrup every day.

LizzieBee

Offline cao

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 11:13:18 pm »
Odds are that they were just old bees.  Once the bees get old and/or sick and cannot fly anymore they will crawl any from the hive to die. 

Offline beepro

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 02:21:11 am »
Yup, those are the old bees at the end of their life cycle.  You will see more of them in another month or so
as the hive will be shrinking until the next new bee cycle to replenish the hive. 

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 09:30:00 am »
The shaking may be some kind of paralysis virus.  Are they black and shiny?  Do they look kind of wet?
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline LizzieBee

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 11:42:23 am »
They aren?t black or wet. They look just like the rest of the bees.

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Offline LizzieBee

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 12:26:47 pm »
Could it be tracheal mites?

LizzieBee

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 02:06:02 pm »
It may be they are just old.  I'm just pointing out what paralysis virus looks like and it does involve shaking and crawling.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline eltalia

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 07:19:54 pm »
I was sitting next to my beehive, watching the bees, when I noticed three on the ground, shaking, and one was walking in circles. I picked one up and it continued to shake and wobble around. Were they at the end of their life? Were they cold? This is a brand new hive that came from a package almost two weeks ago. The rest of the hive from the outside looks great, there are lots of bees bringing pollen, and quite a few going out to forage. They drink about 4 cups of syrup every day.

LizzieBee

"there are lots of bees bringing pollen, and quite a few going out to forage.
They drink about 4 cups of syrup every day."

No sleight on your management intended.
I will never get my head around feeding whilst foraging is happening.
A practice I just find bizzarre!

Bill





Offline LizzieBee

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2018, 08:46:43 pm »
I will look into the paralysis virus.

I?m a brand new beekeeper and feeding them syrup was what I was told to do by many other beekeepers. Also, I finally actually measured the jar they are using and it holds 3 cups so so I was wrong saying 4.

LizzieBee

Offline eltalia

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2018, 10:37:43 pm »
@Lizziebee
I know Lizzie, I know... as said "no sleight on you", a definite objection though to what you
were advised. Truly bizzzzzarre!

There are those who own the impression I take shots at Mr. Bush at any opportunity, that
is their read their misunderstanding. It is simply the case there exists differing experience,
and so quite contrasted opinion to those 'mantras' Michael lays down.
There is the beginning and end tuit.

Yet here on the topic of feeding Mr. Bush's and my views (built on observation within
apiaries) are verrrrry much aligned.
His banner use on tbe topic I particularly embrace wholeheartedly;
""The feeding of bees resembles the noxious influences
under which the children of the rich are reared."
--L.L. Langstroth".

So when you say "many other beekeepers" I read you accept easily that which you
wanted to hear at the time, as do not many but thousands upon thousands of
beekeepers worldwide paying attention to likeminded thousands of beekeepers.
None of whom have been given "good advice" as they started out and most of
whom will go on to lose(loose) colony after colony attributing all that to anything
else *but* "rearing the rich". You, the new owner of bees, simply follow a conga line.

Hopefully millions of successfull beekeepers find solace in quoting the link to Mr. Bush's
thoughts on feeding ;
http://bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm

As previously put a number of times now I do not comment on "feeding my bees" topics
as it is akin to attempting to roll back a tsunami built on what new owners of bees want
to hear in "caring for bees", using human logic as they would around a newborn (bairn).
Indeed "strange behaviour".
I trust you will read and absorb the linked information, your bees depend on it.

Bill

Offline LizzieBee

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 03:24:52 pm »
I have no experience in the beehive other than installing them two weeks ago and then checking a week ago to make sure the queen was released. It?s confusing with so many different opinions. But, I?m willing to try it. Should I just completely stop feeding them? Or only feed when there are very few plants in bloom? There are currently five or six big Spanish lavender bushes blooming, about 25 photinias blooming, and ten Indian Hawthorn on my property. The bees have been all over them. Also, this hive came from a package, not a nuc, if that makes a difference. Last week when I opened the hive they had drawn wax on three frames.

LizzieBee

Offline cao

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2018, 07:25:35 pm »
I don't know about what's in bloom in your area but, I wouldn't stop feeding them yet.  I believe that packages need to be fed for a while.  As a package, they need food to draw comb.  A swarm carries a food supply with them and has bees the right age to produce wax. 

On you next inspection I would check to see if they are storing the sugar water/nectar.  If they are then they probably don't need to be fed anymore.  If they don't have anything stored in the comb, I would continue feeding.  To me it is a judgement call and you are the one who has to make it.  We(forum members) can tell you to feed or not to feed but we don't know what the inside of your hive looks like.  The main thing is that you don't feed them too much that they don't give the queen any place to lay eggs. 

Offline LizzieBee

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2018, 05:22:43 pm »
I just opened the hive today. They were all very calm and seemed to not notice me. They have quite a bit of syrup stored, lots of pollen too. I would?ve liked to see more larva but there was some. I also so the queen, I?ve named her Guinevere. :)  I?m going to stop feeding them once I?m out of the sugar water which should take about three days. They still need to draw comb on two frames, but I trust they?ll have the resources.

LizzieBee

Offline Acebird

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2018, 09:10:48 am »
I?m going to stop feeding them once I?m out of the sugar water which should take about three days.

If they are plugging the cells as fast as they can make them how will they raise brood?  A brand new colony needs bees and the clock is ticking.  What is the cost of throwing out a little syrup vs. another package?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline LizzieBee

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2018, 05:27:35 pm »
Okay. So at what point should I add another brood box? Currently they have all the eight frames in the middle of my ten frame deep brood box with drawn comb and pollen, brood, and honey. They haven?t started on the two frames closest to the wall of the box. I?ve heard once all the frames are full to add the next box, but typically the queen lays eggs in the middle frames, not the outer, leaving her not much room now that the bees have put honey and pollen in towards the middle frames.

LizzieBee

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2018, 05:54:43 pm »
It would help if we knew how many of the frames have brood in them.  The bees will ignore the side frames when you put on the second box above the brood.  To prevent this you will need to rearrange the bottom box with a frame of food on each side, a frame with pollen/food on each side, the frames with only foundation, and all the frames with brood centered in the box.

Add the second box and continue to feed as long as the bees will take the syrup until all comb is drawn out.  You will need to exchange the side frames for drawn ones in the upper box just as you do in the bottom box as the bees will draw the center frames in the upper box first.  The bees will usually start work on the frames directly above any frames with brood in them.

When the nectar flow is sufficient for the bees needs, the bees will ignore the syrup and work the nectar flow.  When the bees ignore the syrup, remove and clean the feeder.  If the nectar flow stops before the upper foundations are drawn you must feed until they are drawn.

I know nothing of your nectar flows, but if a colony doesn't have 3 deep frames of food stores the queen will reduce her egg laying.  You need all the young worker bees you can get for the spring nectar flow to collect surplus for yourself and for wintering.

Offline cao

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2018, 07:47:26 pm »
It would help if we knew how many of the frames have brood in them. 
I agree.

Your hive is still a relatively young hive from a package.  Correct?  And I assume that it is a deep box.  Some say if they have 8 frames full in a 10 frame box, then its time to add another box.  But it also depends on how they are filled and how many bees are actually in there.  The bees are very comfortable being crowded.  If you open the box and the bees aren't peeking up at you between every frame(including the outside frames) then IMO they still have room.  Typically in a ten frame box they will raise brood in the middle 8 frames.  So if they only have brood in the middle four or five frames then they still have room.  This is another one of those judgement calls that you will make as a beekeeper.

If you want to encourage them to draw out the outer frames, you could move them one slot closer to the middle by swaping them with the ones next to them.  I assume that there isn't brood in those frames yet.

 

Offline Acebird

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2018, 09:38:57 pm »
I will never get my head around feeding whilst foraging is happening.
A practice I just find bizzarre!

The unfortunate thing about joining a local club is the badgering a newbie will get to feed and treat their bees.  Except for learning local conditions and how to set up a hive I would stay away from local clubs that preach sugar water and chemicals.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline eltalia

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2018, 10:21:20 am »
I will never get my head around feeding whilst foraging is happening.
A practice I just find bizzarre!

The unfortunate thing about joining a local club is the badgering a newbie
will get to feed and treat their bees.  Except for learning local conditions and
how to set up a hive I would stay away from local clubs that preach sugar
water and chemicals.

Clubs are the folk in them.
It can take some searching but I wouldn't party up
to such a broad pen. In fact such views(yours) being expressed
would have me in the Tojo seeking another club for assessment.

Bill

Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Strange behavior
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2018, 11:28:56 am »
Eltalia;  In many areas the nectar flows are weak and intermittent, and a new package of bees started on foundations must be fed to give the bees sufficient sugar for them to draw wax. 

In my area there is little nectar in the spring until March 23 when the Redbud trees bloom and they will produce for 8 to 10 days.  A strong colony usually will store perhaps a half of a medium super of nectar, but it is rapidly used rearing brood.  There is no further nectar flow where surplus is stored until the first week in May when clover begins to bloom.  There is pollen being produced during this lull, and the bees forage, but little nectar is being brought in.

The bees in established colonies will not start to produce wax on natural nectar sources until the clover bloom, so you can see why bees in some areas must be fed even when they are foraging and securing pollen.