How to store comb honey (Spinoff from) "Comb honey. A journey of learning"

[Ben Framed]

What ways are there to store comb honey? Is refrigerating or freezing the only way?
(Spinoff thoughts from the topic) "Comb honey. A journey of learning" Started by Lesgold

[The15thMember]

I haven't been keeping up with the original topic as well as I would like, so forgive me if I'm missing something.  Why would comb honey be different from any other honey?  Honey shouldn't be refrigerated, as that's the temperature when honey is most prone to crystallizing, and it certainly doesn't need to be frozen.  I have a partial frame of capped sourwood just sitting in a plastic dish on the counter for people to pick at whenever they'd like, and it's been there for several months and it's still perfectly fine.  (Yes, I'm aware that it's criminal that my entire family hasn't eaten 1 medium frame of sourwood faster than that, but it seems not everyone is okay with getting extremely sticky to eat honey! )     

[gww]

The15th
My understanding of freezing is so that small hive beetle eggs do not hatch in your comb honey. So freezing for like 48 hours or so will kill the eggs.
Cheers
gww

[Ben Framed]

I haven't been keeping up with the original topic as well as I would like, so forgive me if I'm missing something.  Why would comb honey be different from any other honey?  Honey shouldn't be refrigerated, as that's the temperature when honey is most prone to crystallizing, and it certainly doesn't need to be frozen.  I have a partial frame of capped sourwood just sitting in a plastic dish on the counter for people to pick at whenever they'd like, and it's been there for several months and it's still perfectly fine.  (Yes, I'm aware that it's criminal that my entire family hasn't eaten 1 medium frame of sourwood faster than that, but it seems not everyone is okay with getting extremely sticky to eat honey! )     

Member I confess I know nothing about storing comb honey nor did I check before asking. I have had liquid honey crystallize in jars and larger storage containers at different times of the year in different temperatures.  I was thinking the same process may occur in stored comb honey which would be undesirable, especially after all the hard work. "who would want crystallized comb honey?  lol

It is good to know I can now skip that and put packaged comb honey containers in stacks in the corner, until time of gifting throughout the year.

I have not attempted freezing honey except when pulled from the hive for a day or so, in order to avoid any concerns of SHB related problems. I was unaware that frozen honey will crystalize, just the opposite results of what I was hoping to accomplish by placing it in long term freezing or 'cold' refrigeration . My thoughts were; Frozen packaged comb honey would be frozen 'in time', intack, with little to no leaking from the comb, With the bonus of no crystallizing, hopefully being found in the same state as was placed in the freezer as when removed from the freezer, ready for gifts etc.

Thank you for this revelation Member..

Phillip

[The15thMember]

I haven't been keeping up with the original topic as well as I would like, so forgive me if I'm missing something.  Why would comb honey be different from any other honey?  Honey shouldn't be refrigerated, as that's the temperature when honey is most prone to crystallizing, and it certainly doesn't need to be frozen.  I have a partial frame of capped sourwood just sitting in a plastic dish on the counter for people to pick at whenever they'd like, and it's been there for several months and it's still perfectly fine.  (Yes, I'm aware that it's criminal that my entire family hasn't eaten 1 medium frame of sourwood faster than that, but it seems not everyone is okay with getting extremely sticky to eat honey! )     

Member I confess I know nothing about storing comb honey nor did I check before asking. I have had liquid honey crystallize in jars and larger storage containers at different times of the year in different temperatures.  I was thinking the same process may occur in stored comb honey which would be undesirable, especially after all the hard work. "who would want crystallized comb honey?  lol

It is good to know I can now skip that and put packaged comb honey containers in stacks in the corner, until time of gifting throughout the year.

I have not attempted freezing honey except when pulled from the hive for a day or so, in order to avoid any concerns of SHB related problems. I was unaware that frozen honey will crystalize, just the opposite results of what I was hoping to accomplish by placing it in long term freezing or 'cold' refrigeration . My thoughts were; Frozen packaged comb honey would be frozen 'in time', intack, with little to no leaking from the comb, With the bonus of no crystallizing, hopefully being found in the same state as was placed in the freezer as when removed from the freezer, ready for gifts etc.

Thank you for this revelation Member..

Phillip

Just to be clear, you can freeze honey in the comb with no problem.  As gww mentioned, I do that to deal with pests all the time, even with honey frames for extraction and it causes no issues that I've noticed.  You certainly could store comb honey in the freezer without any issues, but you just don't need to.  Just like capped honey in the hive is perfectly fine in any temperature, capped honey on a shelf is no different.  And I've also had liquid honey on the shelf crystallize at a variety of temperatures, and I'd be more concerned about the variety of honey than the temperature if I was worried about that.  For example, in Great Britain they often have trouble with ivy honey crystallizing in the comb which makes it hard for the bees to eat over the winter and then the bees can starve in a hive full of honey.  Honey that is prone to crystallizing (honey that is mostly glucose as opposed to fructose) will eventually do so regardless of temperature; and most honey will crystallize fastest at refrigeration temperatures (around 40F).       

[Ben Framed]

I never know from year to year or flow to flow if my honey will or will not crystallize. All wildflower honey in my apiary location . I just do not want to have it crystallize in the comb when I try this next year. Looking ahead and answered questions has been a help. Wonder why it will not crystallize in stored comb?

Thanks

Phillip

[Lesgold]

Hi Folks

Wax moth eggs are another consideration. Freezing comb for a couple of days will sort that potential problem. Comb can apparently be frozen for 12 months without impacting on its texture or nutritional qualities. As it is a product that relies on a good honey flow, the idea of having stock available during the quiet times of year appeals to me. I must admit that fresh comb, eaten soon after removing from the hive would be my preference. When I get back home I?ll show you what I?m currently using and where I?m heading in relation to packaging. Look forward with interest to what ideas people come up with as what I?m currently using is less than ideal.

Cheers

Les

[gww]

Freezing honey should stop crystallization.  57 degrees is the fastest  crystallization temp.
Cheers
gww

[The15thMember]

I never know from year to year or flow to flow if my honey will or will not crystallize. All wildflower honey in my apiary location . I just do not want to have it crystallize in the comb when I try this next year. Looking ahead and answered questions has been a help. Wonder why it will not crystallize in stored comb?

Thanks

Phillip

I agree with Les and gww.  If you are concerned about it, just go ahead and freeze it if you have the space, as it won't harm the honey at all.  If it's a honey prone to crystallizing, it may crystallize in the comb, unless you freeze it.     

[Ben Framed]

Thanks friends. I really appreciate your input.

Phillip

[cao]

Freezing honey frames for SHB's may or may not be necessary.  The beetles lay eggs in pollen.  So if there is no pollen in the honey frames, odds are there is no beetle eggs.  As long as the hive, that the frames were taken from, hasn't been overrun by the SHB's then there should not be any larva crawling around on the frame.  I have a frame of capped honey that was left over last year when I harvested and extracted.  It has been sitting in a bucket for a year and a half and it is fine. 

As far as storing cut comb, I had some that I packaged in the plastic clam shell boxes similar to those pictured in the other topic.  They were fine just sitting there until the day that the little sugar ants found them.  Honey sprinkled with ants is not very popular with most people. 

If you were to freeze them in those plastic containers, you might have moisture issues when you thaw them out if you get any frost buildup inside those containers.  This may or may not happen, depending on your freezer.

[NigelP]

Just to confirm what many have already posted comb honey stores best when frozen. I currently have 2 freezers full of the stuff and thaw as needed. Yes you get a little condensation in the packaging  when immediately thawed, but this soon disappears as they warm to room temperature.

[Lesgold]

Hi Folks,

I have been using 240ml, round takeaway containers for the little rounds that I have been making. Not perfect but they do the job at the moment. I have been looking into a bio plastic option which is quite appealing. Hopefully in the future, beekeepers will have better options for presenting their products. This bio plastic material is made from plant material and is compostable in a commercial setting. It is a renewable resource and should reduce the issues that we currently face with petro chemical plastics. Here is a screenshot taken from their website. I have emailed them asking for a couple of samples and info on their products. This may take a while as they will be shutting down for the Christmas break.

[Lesgold]

Hi Folks,

Another company making bio plastics sent me a range of their products to look at. I selected three that could be put to good use. They are all bio plastics and are quite cheep to buy. The two with black bases were designed for sushi. They are light weight and resent well. The two sushi containers don?t seal so the comb could only be sold in these containers in a market or home sales situation.

[FloridaGardener]

So this year I used these, because I'm tired of spending $1 per container.  This holds 1 lb very nicely.
3 for a dollar, woo hoo.  Thank you Ikea!

Not as leakproof as the Snapware thumblatch containers for $3 at Target, so not suitable for shipping through the mail like the Snapware can be sent.  But just fine for local sales.

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/pruta-food-container-clear-yellow-90335843/

[Lesgold]

Hi Folks,

A couple of methods I used for the markets. (They are not fully labelled yet) Small rectangular honey  sections lightly vacuum sealed. Just enough to get most of the air out without squashing the comb. This allows for easy freezing if required.


Small takeaway containers for the rounds. (Not ideal but it is the best I have at this stage)


Cheers

Les

[Lesgold]

Just got sent a sample cellulose based bag that is heat sealable. Just trying it out on a comb section in the freezer. The bag is biodegradable and is made from wood pulp. It?s light weight, very clear and should work well to seal in the sticky stuff. I think that it will be good for home sales, markets and possibly in a commercial setting (such as a restaurant) where the comb could be stored in the freezer during the off season. This bag will cost about 16c per item when purchased in bulk.



I used the heat sealing element on my vacuum sealer to seal the bag.

[FloridaGardener]

But how much does the wood frame cost?

Do you need a special divider in the hive?

[Lesgold]

Hi FloridaGardener,

I make those frames myself. Have a look at the thread on comb honey and you will be able to pick up a few more details.

Cheers

Les

[Lesgold]

Hi Folks,

The postman just turned up with some samples from a packaging company. I put a round of comb in each of the samples and took a photo of each. Here they are:



This container uses a biodegradable base made from sugar cane pulp. The lid is a plant based bio plastic. Both the lid and base are compostable.



This container is just like the takeaway containers that I am currently using but the one in the photo is also plant based. It is perfectly clear.

I?m impressed with both options. What do you guys think? Do you have a preference? I will definitely use one of these options.

Cheers

Les

[Ben Framed]

What do you guys think? Do you have a preference?

Les it is my opinion the clearer the 'whole' situation the better, including the rounds. The beauty of the comb from 'every angle' top, bottom, and sides showing the golden pure honey and comb is hard to beat.

Phillip

[The15thMember]

What do you guys think? Do you have a preference?

Les it is my opinion the clearer the 'whole' situation the better, including the rounds. The beauty of the comb from 'every angle' top, bottom, and sides showing the golden pure honey and comb is hard to beat.

Phillip

I completely agree.  The circular one also looks nicer and more professional with the circular ross round. 

[Lesgold]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Cost of each of those units with lids is under 30c which makes it a relatively cheap packaging option.

[Brian MCquilkin]

I like the round one looks much better.  I would cut around the comb and put it into the package. That way I think it would be better and you could use the frame for another batch.

[Ben Framed]

Mr MCquilkin. I added a thumbs up to your post above! I like the idea... I am thinking a special made tool with a guitar string as the cutting wire, might make easy, smooth work of this?

Phillip

[Lesgold]

Good points from both of you. Some more lateral thinking from outside the box. There is one reason why I won?t go down that path. I came up with this idea to be a little bit different to what most people see in relation to comb honey. The feedback that I?m getting from customers revolves around two aspects. The obvious one is the positive comments in relation to the comb honey itself. It?s appearance, flavour and the nature of a natural, unprocessed product. The second point relates to the presentation of the product. People love the timber frames and the story behind how it is made. (By the bees) People who have bought it do so for themselves or for gifts. I understand where you guys are coming from. There is a time element that would turn quite a few people off.  I actually make them very quickly now. The timber costs me nothing as I use off cuts. Each little task only takes a few minutes but it is spread out over a number of days. That doesn?t worry me as I am normally working on other things like making frames, wiring frames, cleaning up boxes etc. I just stop what I?m doing for a couple of minutes to complete one phase of making the rounds. I then get back to the initial task I was working on.  Producing honey is still the number one focus. Comb honey is just a way of value adding and providing the customer with alternatives. I have found that people who come to my house to buy comb honey, quite often buy some jars of honey as well. The reverse is also the case. This little venture has increased sales considerably over the past couple of months.

Cheers

Les

[Ben Framed]

Les I appreciate your detailed answer and clear explanation of why you chose to stay with this plan. The customers appreciation of the wood round is the bottom line. Being the rounds are easy and fast for you to make is even more reason to proceed as your are sailing with the wind in your sails, so to speak. I am taking in your words of experience along with your input of this method with respect and appreciation. I confess I am partial to the clear (everything) as a personal preference. The customers satisfaction is number one and you have accomplished that feat. Keep up the good work!

Phillip

[Lesgold]

I think that both methods have merit and are worthy of consideration. Brian?s idea is very good as you would only need one set of wooden rounds per frame. The idea of cutting them out and packaging them is a great idea. If a good cut out technique is developed, the comb could be removed and the whole frame could be put back onto the hive in the same day with no other work needing to be done.  No waste and minimal effort. I?m sorry that I didn?t take the time to respond to that side of the argument. I think quite a few people would show a preference for this approach.  I hope no offence is taken Brian. Well done and keep the ideas coming in.

[Ben Framed]

Well as they say, there is more than one way to skin a cat! lol..  Mr MCquilkins idea I liked and still do. But the bottom line is what works best for you and your customer. Remembering, we are on the outside looking in. You are in the middle working your way through these experiments. I do not want to discourage you, on the contrary. I wish to encourage you, and I feel safe in thinking Mr MCquilkin does too.
We at beemaster, who are keeping up with your experiments, are learning from your dedication, as you put your ideas into action, while you are achieving successful accomplishments.  👍🏻

Phillip

[Brian MCquilkin]

Great information from everyone, this how we learn different things is from each other, no offense taken here.
If the customers love the wood and it gives you an edge on selling your product that's great. This year at the farmers market I will be selling comb honey in a jar. I'm thinking about taking some small queen cages with some drones in them to give to the kids.

[The15thMember]

Great information from everyone, this how we learn different things is from each other, no offense taken here.
If the customers love the wood and it gives you an edge on selling your product that's great. This year at the farmers market I will be selling comb honey in a jar. I'm thinking about taking some small queen cages with some drones in them to give to the kids.

What a fantastic idea!  Drones are the unsung heroes of bee ambassadorship, since they are disposable and can't sting.  I catch drones and give them to the kids in my family to play with all the time.   

[Lesgold]

I agree. It?s important that we can educate people (especially kids) on the role that bees undertake in the environment. Kids are also our future (and present) customers. Once they try raw, natural, unprocessed honey, they never want to go back to the store bought stuff.

Are you going to sell chunk honey in a jar or are you planning to get the bees to draw comb in the jar? Either way, I?d be interested in any feedback that you get. I?ve been selling a bit of chunk honey. It was popular just before Christmas but sales have slowed up a bit now. Just selling the odd one now.

[Brian MCquilkin]

Are you going to sell chunk honey in a jar or are you planning to get the bees to draw comb in the jar? Either way, I?d be interested in any feedback that you get. I?ve been selling a bit of chunk honey. It was popular just before Christmas but sales have slowed up a bit now. Just selling the odd one now.

Planning to have bees draw out the jars, will give an update when they start drawing it out.

[Lesgold]

Looking forward to seeing your technique.

[Bill Murray]

Im trying that this year also Brian. My granddaughter is very excited about it. Are you planning on putting thin surplus as starter or just melted wax? Im also trying to decide if we want a queenless hive or not. Thats a lot of comb to build in jars. IDK, just thinking out loud.

[Brian MCquilkin]

Im trying that this year also Brian. My granddaughter is very excited about it. Are you planning on putting thin surplus as starter or just melted wax? Im also trying to decide if we want a queenless hive or not. Thats a lot of comb to build in jars. IDK, just thinking out loud.

I'm planing on using wax foundation in the jars and having the bees draw it out

[Lesgold]

Hi Brian. That?s what is showing up as the best option at this point in time. With a heavy flow, I don?t think it would matter. I will give an update of my jars experiment in a day or so.

[loisl58]

Wish I had the skills to give your ideas a try your ideas.
I am enjoying this discussion. . Keep it coming.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk