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Author Topic: Pair of queens on observation hive.  (Read 4091 times)

Offline splitrock

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Pair of queens on observation hive.
« on: September 23, 2018, 08:27:40 am »
My 8 frame observation hive has swarmed twice this year, the last time was late July. The day they swarmed, I saw a healthy looking queen in the hive yet. She was fat and large that enough I figured she was fertile. I saw her laying just days later.
 Lots of larvae and brood appeared and hatched, but lately the hive seemed to be dwindling down pretty good with no sign of any eggs, and all the larvae visible had finished hatching.
 I have this hive at a local vegetable market along with my honey for sale. Well yesterday While contemplating taking it down and combining the remaining bees with another hive, I spot a queen and she?s laying, laying really well I?m now seeing young larvae too . The owner of the market was so also looking with me and while I was checking out the other side he says ?I thought there was only one I queen in a hive? and he says there?s two here.
Thinking he was Probably seeing a drone, I go to look and low and behold there is a second plump healthy looking queen that walks right by the other while she was laying.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2018, 08:39:55 am »
Sounds like a supercedure has taken place. Many times, the bees will allow the old mother queen to stay in the hive for awhile after the daughter starts laying.
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Offline splitrock

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2018, 09:05:48 am »
Hmmm, I thought the old queen left with the swarm. After two swarming events I didn?t figure there could be an old queen. This older queen must not be up to par huh?
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Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2018, 09:06:17 am »
Quote from: iddee on September 23, 2018, 08:39:55 am
Sounds like a supercedure has taken place. Many times, the bees will allow the old mother queen to stay in the hive for awhile after the daughter starts laying.
that`s what it sounds like to me, too.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2018, 10:50:22 am »
Quote from: splitrock on September 23, 2018, 09:05:48 am
Hmmm, I thought the old queen left with the swarm. After two swarming events I didn?t figure there could be an old queen. This older queen must not be up to par huh?
Yes, the old queen leaves with the SWARM. In a supercedure, the old queen stays and they lay side by side. This really helps the hive recover quickly from a failing queen.
Jim
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Offline splitrock

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2018, 11:34:11 am »
so, in this case likely not an old queen problem after swarming twice already. Maybe a sub par young one being superseded?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2018, 01:59:54 pm »
A new queen after a swarm becomes an old, fat queen in about 2 weeks. You can't tell her from a 3 year old queen.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2018, 02:23:15 pm »
Quote from: iddee on September 23, 2018, 01:59:54 pm
A new queen after a swarm becomes an old, fat queen in about 2 weeks. You can't tell her from a 3 year old queen.
well, an older queen will have less hair and the wings might be a bit.... look like being nibbled on. but it`s really hard to tell!
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Offline splitrock

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2018, 06:38:14 pm »
So who will be in charge of dispatching the old royalty?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2018, 06:55:09 pm »
Group decision by the workers.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline splitrock

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2018, 09:22:17 pm »
Nice that daughter doesn?t have to get rid of mom.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2018, 01:38:59 pm »
Quote from: sawdstmakr on September 23, 2018, 10:50:22 am
Yes, the old queen leaves with the SWARM. In a supercedure, the old queen stays and they lay side by side. This really helps the hive recover quickly from a failing queen.
Jim

Hey Jim, is this always the case?  I didn't do a full inspection of my big hive for about 3 weeks, and last weekend when I went into the brood nest there was hardly any brood.  There was a frame of capped worker brood however, and on it was a queen cell that was already hatched, along with an empty queen cup.  I checked the next frame for any more queen cells, and I saw a mated queen on that frame.  I assumed that the old queen had already been dispatched, and this mated queen was the new one, but is it possible that I saw the old queen, and the new queen isn't yet mated or laying?   
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2018, 01:49:09 pm »
Member,
It is very likely that you saw the old queen and the new queen has not made her maiden flight yet. The nice thing about this is that if she does not return, they just make another queen.
Jim
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2018, 06:59:32 pm »
Should I be concerned about the fact that there was basically no brood?  Other than the frame the queen cell was on, there was about another 1/2 a frame of capped worker brood, a smattering of capped drone brood, and that was it.  The bottom medium was ENTIRELY empty of brood, except for literally 2 larva.     
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Offline splitrock

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2018, 08:23:32 pm »
Jim, they are both laying. Also,  while I watched they were both busy. Had a hard time getting a pic of both out of the cell they were laying in at the same time.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2018, 10:47:04 pm »
Quote from: splitrock on September 25, 2018, 08:23:32 pm
Jim, they are both laying. Also,  while I watched they were both busy. Had a hard time getting a pic of both out of the cell they were laying in at the same time.
I would like to see that photo.
Jim
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Offline splitrock

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2018, 07:20:19 am »
I?ll try

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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2018, 02:22:49 pm »
Nice. That is the first picture of queens laying side by side that I have seen. Good job.
Jim
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Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline blackforest beekeeper

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2018, 03:14:29 pm »
Why am I "not allowed to view attachments"?
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Pair of queens on observation hive.
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2018, 05:30:22 pm »
Quote from: blackforest beekeeper on September 26, 2018, 03:14:29 pm
Why am I "not allowed to view attachments"?
Are you not seeing the picture of the 2 queens in splitrock?s post? It should show up as a picture, not an attachment.
I do not see anything in your profile that would stop you from seeing attachments.
Jim
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Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin
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