Newbie with New Swarm-- okay to move from temp hive after a month?

[heartfarm]

Hi! Thank you in advance.
I caught a swarm last weekend and borrowed a bottom board from a neighbor until my hive parts came in and am feeding them. This all happened quickly and I wasn't quite prepared. The swarm basically surrounded me for about 60 seconds and then clustered on the ground so I took it as a sign to step into gear

I ordered a kit from Dadant that includes a 10-frame deep super and medium shallow. I'm waiting for the hive stand and queen excluder. Right now I have them in a clean "temporary" deep super I had in the barn, and am still looking for the best location. We are rural, 5000ft high desert and sometimes winds of 35mph so am considering building an adobe wall long term for windbreak. I have pasture and orchard 0.1 miles from the house but lots of variables with cows, irrigation and critters so am considering ample space uphill nearer the house. Right now I have the hive set on boards with cinder blocks just inches off the ground (all I had available) just outside our courtyard wall under a mesquite bush with weight on top of the cover.

All of that background to ask-- how long do I have until the hive is "settled" and have to take strong considerations for relocating the hive?

My plan is to move the frames they are building on (now 7 days) into this "new" hive being delivered after they've been in there for about 3 weeks total. The new hive is already painted white and may fare better in weather (sun, monsoons, some light snowfall). Is that wrong? Do I need to, or is it better to keep them in the existing super (proper super just not painted) and just set that on the new bottom board/stand, and add the medium on top of that?

thank you!

[FatherMichael]

I'd say to keep it in the same location - sounds like a good place.  When the new hive box comes, put the caught swarm in the "temporary" deep on top of it.  Eventually, the caught swarm will move down into the new space.

[The15thMember]

Welcome to Beemaster, heartfarm!  What an amazing way to get your first bees! 

All of that background to ask-- how long do I have until the hive is "settled" and have to take strong considerations for relocating the hive?

If they have been in there for a week, they are basically already settled.  The general rule of thumb for moving hives is "3 feet or 3 miles". Bees visually memorize the location of the hive when they are first learning to forage, but once they have done so, they will leave the hive taking for granted that their memorized location is accurate.  (You wouldn't expect your house to move either!  )  The bees won't have trouble finding the new hive location if it's moved about 3 feet or less, but any farther away than that and the bees won't be able to find it reliably.  However, if you lock the bees in overnight, so none of the foragers get left behind, and move the hive several miles, everything will look so different that the bees will memorize the new location.  So unless your property is VERY large, moving them to another location will probably be a gradual process.  There are some ways to try and get bees to reorient to a new location, like putting a branch in front of the entrance to confuse them, the success of which is variable based on what I've heard, but I've never tried it myself. 

My plan is to move the frames they are building on (now 7 days) into this "new" hive being delivered after they've been in there for about 3 weeks total. The new hive is already painted white and may fare better in weather (sun, monsoons, some light snowfall). Is that wrong?

 
White is a great color for a hive, and unless you lived in an extremely cold climate it would not be a problem (and honestly, I've seen plenty of beekeepers in Alaska and far northern Canada with white hives too).  I have hives in all colors.  The only thing I'd be concerned about would be black. 

Do I need to, or is it better to keep them in the existing super (proper super just not painted) and just set that on the new bottom board/stand, and add the medium on top of that?

It should be easy to transfer the frames into the painted deep when it arrives if that is what you prefer.  I'm assuming your climate is very dry, so there would also be likely no issues using that unpainted box for a season.  Even in my extremely humid climate, I have a friend who doesn't paint his boxes, and they hold up okay.  If you'd rather have them in the painted box though, you can just transfer the frames they are on to the new hive on the new stand, and I doubt they will have any serious trouble as long as the location remains the same.  The difference in the height of the hive could confuse them for a few hours, but they should get the hang of the new entrance quickly enough. 

I ordered a kit from Dadant that includes a 10-frame deep super and medium shallow. I'm waiting for the hive stand and queen excluder. Right now I have them in a clean "temporary" deep super I had in the barn, and am still looking for the best location. We are rural, 5000ft high desert and sometimes winds of 35mph so am considering building an adobe wall long term for windbreak. I have pasture and orchard 0.1 miles from the house but lots of variables with cows, irrigation and critters so am considering ample space uphill nearer the house. Right now I have the hive set on boards with cinder blocks just inches off the ground (all I had available) just outside our courtyard wall under a mesquite bush with weight on top of the cover.

         
Just to put your mind at ease, nothing about this setup sounds problematic to me in the least.  I keep my hives on cinderblocks permanently (I use 8 frames, so they get tall fast).  Also, just a quick correction on terminology.  There are 3 Langstroth box depths: deep, medium, and shallow.  A super is a box of any size placed over the brood nest as space for the bees to store honey. 

Congrats on becoming a beekeeper!  Please don't hesitate to ask us any and all questions you may have.  We never get tired of talking about bees here on Beemaster. 

[Ben Framed]

"heartfarm": Welcome to Beemaster!!!! We are happy that you have chosen to join us!

There are some ways to try and get bees to reorient to a new location, like putting a branch in front of the entrance to confuse them, the success of which is variable based on what I've heard, but I've never tried it myself. 

I tried the limb method and it did no good in my case.   

I'd say to keep it in the same location - sounds like a good place.  When the new hive box comes, put the caught swarm in the "temporary" deep on top of it.  Eventually, the caught swarm will move down into the new space.

I agree!!

You did not say where you was intending to move the bees too. If it's in the cow pasture be sure to fence off the bee area because the cows love to use the hives as a scratching tool and you don't want the hives knocked down. ...

Phillip

[heartfarm]

I'd say to keep it in the same location - sounds like a good place.  When the new hive box comes, put the caught swarm in the "temporary" deep on top of it.  Eventually, the caught swarm will move down into the new space.

this is helpful, thank you!

[heartfarm]

thank you for the support and help! My property is big but not 3 miles big :) I am looking around at space I can fence off and windbreak for a little bee yard. I think it's about 100ft away so I'll keep in mind it can take a month to move them that much. We can have 35mph winds here during an entire season so that's the biggest concern. We will get skunks and monsoon rains at some point so I'm thinking windbreak+a couple feet off the ground will be better for them longterm.

I thought cows and beehives might not be a good idea, but knowing they use them as scratching posts is helpful.

thanks!

[Ben Framed]

I'm thinking windbreak+a couple feet off the ground will be better for them longterm.

This can be kind of inconvenient when inspecting in my opinion.

[The15thMember]

I'm thinking windbreak+a couple feet off the ground will be better for them longterm.

This can be kind of inconvenient when inspecting in my opinion.

We were talking about skunks a week or so ago, I'll see if I can dig up the post, and someone mentioned that as long as the entrance is high enough that the skunk has to stand up on its hind legs and expose its soft underbelly to stings, that's high enough.  Just be sure that the stand isn't so high that the hive will get too tall to easily lift off a heavy top box. 

Edit: It was Terri who asked about it, and here was Michael Bush's answer.  It's about exposing their throat actually, according to his post.  https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=54786.msg529258#msg529258

[Ben Framed]

Skunks are not my expertise. Luckily I don't have them to deal with in my area.

Mr Bush did not say how hight would be necessary to expose their throat but Ive never seen a skunk that was two feet long here in he South. lol    12-14 inches in body length, maybe, not counting their tails. as Reagan said " Just be sure that the stand isn't so high that the hive will get too tall to easily lift off a heavy top box." and that was my point.. 
 
From the link Reagan posted.

Michael Bush
If the entrance is high enough to expose their throat they won't do this. If the ground had things that make the rolling part difficult (some staked out chicken wire or paver blocks etc.) it will stop them.

Now if I lived in an area where skunks were a problem, rather than lift my bees so high off the ground, I think I would rather follow Michales advise about a skunk problem and go top entrance..


GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. / Ten Commandments of Beekeeping
<< by Michael Bush on July 27, 2022, 10:03:30 am >>
......  bottom entrance. It will only contribute to mice, skunk, opossum, grass and snow problems. A top entrance  ......

[FatherMichael]

My environment in West Texas probably resembles yours.  We won't be stacking supers to the sky like they do in Florida or Georgia.  My stands are all at least 20" to the entrance.  Here we have skunks, porcupines, turkey, and raccoons.  I'm positive that their predations contributed to there demise of at least one hive.  Some creature had punched through the screen bottom board before I decked the stand with plywood.

Two of my screened bottom boards now have metal closures.  One needs a solution (probably a couple of 1x4s cut to length).

We know about 35 mph winds, too.  Fortunately, my hives are in as "wooded" an area as exists here on the banks of Deep Creek.  Still, one hive stand has two legs 1' in the ground, the bait hive is weighted with a concrete block and the last needs a solution (probably strapping on a concrete block).

Your idea of a fenced in yard with windbreak is excellent.

Make it big enough for a couple of hives?

[iddee]

All good advice, but I would add, ditch the ezcluder for 2 to 3 years. A lot of new bee keepers kill their hive with an excluder before they learn all the ins and outs of them.