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Author Topic: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth  (Read 3869 times)

Offline omnimirage

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Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« on: February 23, 2018, 03:32:36 am »
Turns out that I have two different types of bucket lids for food grade buckets (with and without honeygates), and I've damaged some of them by trying to force lids onto buckets that don't fit. Other lids that, once sealed so tightly that I had to put my knee onto in order to lift, now can be lift with a pinky finger and many others, whilst sealed tightly, aren't as strong as they used to be.

I then buggered up and didn't process some honeycomb that was in a garbage bag, and wax moth ate through the bag and all the comb and now my whole honeyshed is infested with the moths. Then they got into a number of my buckets with the poor lids. I've been using the crush and strain method without a press and haven't had a way of processing the wax afterwards, so I have a build up of wet wax(poorly strained) buckets that moths have gotten into, and unprocessed buckets of honey honeycomb (I just directly scooped it into the bucket with a hivetool), one of which has a strong infestation of many larvae, webs and other gross things inside it, there's about 20 litres of honey all up in the bucket.

So I'm trying to get on top of this situation. I'm trying to identify which buckets are sealed properly. It seems that the seal is largely, if not entirely due to the lids. Some lids clearly seal very well, some clearly don't seal at all, and a number of them are somewhere in between and it's a little difficult to tell. I have some buckets that had honey in them, but I poured it all out so there's just some a sticky layer on the surface left, I'd like to leave these outside with some of the lids I'm unsure about, to test whether ants (and other critters) can gain entrance to it, but with the amount of wax/honey that I have, and with the amount of defective lids that I have it'll be a challenge, if not an impossible one to fit everything that I already have. I might have to go buy myself some more buckets soon. I've been buying second hand 27 litre mustard buckets, it takes a good day or two to clean them and remove the smell (I mostly sit them in water with bicarbsoda, might give them bit of a scrub and spray down with a high pressure hose), I get them cheap but I'm now wondering about the merits of such since they seem to lose their seal after being opened too many times (or it may be that the ones that don't seal anymore, are ones that I tried to force onto a bucket that didn't fit).

I want to bug bomb the honeyshed, there's dozens of moths flying around in there and I really don't want them to be in there. I'm then concerned about the moths that are in my buckets. I won't be able to do any stuff in the shed soon for a few weeks due to life reasons, yet I really don't want the wax moth to spread and thrive in my buckets. The bug bomb will only kill the moth in the shed, not the ones in the bucket.

I figure that I can burn and squish most of the bugs in the buckets. I'm wondering whether if I use a tightly sealed lid on the buckets, would the bugs eventually die in there due to a lack of oxygen? I just find it odd how my buckets that have gunk comb in them (mostly old used brood comb, but any comb that's rubbish but I decide to save to beeswax rather than burn) never seemed to have gotten a wax moth infestation in them and I'm not sure if that's due to chance or whether they need honey to thrive and infest.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 09:12:03 am »
27 liter, how do you pick it up?  Don't people store honey in buckets with the intent to sell the honey with the bucket?  Does the shed get hot?  That will most certainly distort the buckets and lids such that they won't fit right.  Maybe you should invest in a food grade steel drum.  I would say the honey is ruined now so steam would be the way I would go.
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2018, 05:08:31 pm »
They are friggin heavy, I hurt my back moving them the other day. I use a sack truck when I can. They seem to be the standard size used for storing and selling honey here. I haven't sold them in a bucket before but people do do that. Might have to invest in something. I burned the gunky layer, the honey underneath seems fine but I'm going to have to assess it more closely, if it's bad I'll just use it to feed swarms and starving hives I suppose.

Offline omnimirage

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2018, 07:26:12 am »
I couldn't quite figure it out, but there appears to be maybe 3 types of buckets/lids out there, if not more. I moved all the buckets outside, adjusted the lids so that they were all sealed up well to best effect, wrote labels on each bucket about its contents, checked with wax moth about 8 buckets have been infected many buckets with honey in them, I can't feasibly crush and strain that many in the time frame that I have, so I'm seeking to buy a second hand freezer as soon as I can, so that I can just freeze the buckets and kill the wax moth inside that way. I couldn't find any long chest freezers, there's a few upright freezers, I figure I can just rest them on their side, I'm waiting back on the dimensions of these second hand freezers the people who posted these ads didn't mention such I need to know whether they actually have enough depth to fit a 27 litre bucket.

I moved out all the beekeeping gear and set the bug bomb off. It appears to be quite a low potent one, but it should do the job. I just need to be careful about not reinfecting the area with them via the moths out of the buckets, I made sure all the buckets that had moths had extra tight lids, and I hope I can find a suitable cheap freezer soon to buy.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2018, 09:30:17 am »
I moved out all the beekeeping gear and set the bug bomb off. It appears to be quite a low potent one, but it should do the job.

I think the honey shed is the minor problem.  The eggs in the honey is the real problem.  The poop will eventually start off fermentation and that will most certainly blow the lids off.
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2018, 04:44:15 pm »
Yeah. There was just one bucket that was heavily hit and I burned all the junk and am gonna do an extraction on it today. If I freeze the buckets, will that stop these fermentation issue? I've acquired a freezer, was difficult to find one that was of any decent size, the one I got just holds a single bucket at a time. How long will it take to properly freeze and kill the bugs inside? One source said 10 days, meaning that it's apparently gonna take the rest of the year until I freeze all my buckets :/

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 08:30:13 am »
Omni,
Keep in mind, even if your buckets are sealed, they already have wax moth eggs and possibly larvae in the comb when you pull it.
Over here we have to extract our honey within 24 hours or the SHBs destroy the honey. Freezing right after it is pulled would stop it.
Not sure how long it would take to freeze a 60 pound bucket but the colder you set the temperature the faster it will freeze. Sounds like a little testing with a long stem thermometer is needed to find out.
Just poke a hole in the top and push the thermometer in an leave it there so that you can see when it is below 32 degrees.
Jim
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 08:54:42 am »

Just poke a hole in the top and push the thermometer in an leave it there so that you can see when it is below 32 degrees.
Jim

It should go to 0 degrees for three days to kill the eggs.  And freezing will only slow down fermentation while it is froze.  It will start back up again when brought to room temperature.

Correction, I found this:

Quote
Cold Treatment: minimum cold temperature storage time required to kill all life stages of wax moths in honey-extracted comb include:  20?F (-7?C) for 4.5 hours, 10?F (-12?C) for three hours, or 5?F (-15?C) for two hours. Additional time should be given for equipment to reach required minimum temperatures, especially in hot weather or large capacity freezers. These temperature exposure periods will have to be increased to kill wax moth larvae in comb honey. Wax moth development is accelerated at higher temperatures, so comb honey should be protected from this pest beginning immediately after harvest.

Freezing individual frames containing wax moth larvae from live bee colonies is recommended to control this pest, but this will rarely result in successfully salvaging a colony that also shows signs of weakness and low morale. Some other more serious primary problem such as queen failure, mites, or disease is responsible for the poor condition of the colony.

Heat Treatment: heat can be used to kill all life stages of wax moths by using the following exposure periods: 115?F (46?C) for 80 minutes or 120?F (49?C) for 40 minutes. Treatment exposure periods should not begin till specified temperatures are reached. Combs should not be heated above 120?F (49?C) because combs will sag above this temperature and beeswax melts at about 148?F (64?C). Frames of comb should be heat-treated only in the upright position and should not be handled until allowed to cool. Heat treatment should be used only for comb containing little or no honey (Shimanuki and Knox 1997).
https://www.clemson.edu/extension/beekeepers/fact-sheets-publications/wax-moth-ipm-publication.html
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 09:01:28 am »
Thanks for clueing me onto this. The bucket that got hit the worse does seem like it's fermenting. There's another one that I'm unsure if it is, I'm gonna give it another taste tomorrow. Another that I can't actually get to the honey because there's too much wax on top, so am unsure. But then four buckets aren't fermenting. Most of the buckets have very minimal signs of moth activity so it seems that most of the honey is still good.

I wish I had a long stem thermometer! I'll see what I can do but I don't think I'll have access to one. I do have a thermometer but it's rather bulky and flappy, it'd be difficult to get it into the bucket with all the wax in it.

I didn't know that about the larvae and the buckets. Sounds like I should be freezing everything I bring in from the hives.

Offline omnimirage

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2018, 09:18:07 am »
Good information thanks Acebird.

I've got one full day and one morning left to deal with this situation. I've decided that I'm going to try and render the beeswax that shows sign of moth, melt it all down. I've got a little under 5 27 litre/60 pound buckets worth of beeswax to process. I don't have suitable equipment to do this and I'm not sure how to go about it. I was thinking of putting the wax in cheesecloth, maybe even stockings and boil it, but I realise that, for this quantity, such doesn't seem to be feasible. I think I need to double boiler it and then pour it into some container/bowl through some cheesecloth, but then I'm not sure if I have the right set of pots to do it. I do have a metal bowl of somewhat decent size that's already been ruined by beeswax, it has a rubberbase on it, I'd imagine that'd be okay to boil. Otherwise I'd need to ruin a good pot.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2018, 09:18:37 am »
Another that I can't actually get to the honey because there's too much wax on top, so am unsure.
Not to be mean but I think all your honey is suspect.  Most of this problem can be attributed to the fact that you only performed 1/2 the process of making honey.  If you can identify buckets that don't have evidence of wax moth then you should be straining them right now.  IMO you can't sell this honey as "raw" anymore.  So you might as well heat it and make the straining process easier.  All the honey that you know has wax moth in it I would definitely heat and strain.  This could be use to feed hives and let them use it for brood or turn it back into raw honey.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2018, 09:25:35 am »
I'd imagine that'd be okay to boil. Otherwise I'd need to ruin a good pot.

If you have that much wax to process then invest in a wall paper steamer and use your hive boxes to process.  There are several YouTube vids on this.  What is your plan next time assuming you still have the same number of hives?
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2018, 09:38:27 am »
I appreciate the feedback. I do suspect. How would you gauge whether it's good or not? I was just eating some of it and some buckets tasted like it's regular yummy self, but I don't really understand how fermenting works. One bucket was difficult to tell, because it was a little crystallised and glunky and I don't usually eat the honey in this form so it was different. More than half of the buckets, the only sign of moth that I see is a little bit of web on the top of the comb. I know that this means the larvae has been in the bucket. I don't believe they can so easily survive deeper in the bucket, because they'd drown in the honey, but I'm just guessing.

What do you mean by heat it? To what sort of temperatures are we talking here? Do you mean to pasteurize it, or to heat it to a high temperature to make it easier to strain and work with?

I plan on using a solar wax melter in the future and be more on top of it. I've also got a spinning extractor now, which makes this less of an issue for the future.


Offline Acebird

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2018, 09:51:32 am »
According to Clemson.edu you can heat it to 115 F for 80 minutes.  It will probably take you that long to strain it.
Fermentation:  The lid will bow up, you might hear a woosh when you first crack the seal, the surface of the honey will be watery and if you have a good nose you will smell the rotten socks.  For me it is hard to tell from golden rod honey but my wife can tell as good as a hound dog.
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2018, 04:32:01 pm »
Interesting about the pressure and water. It sort of tastes more like wine to me in that sweet, tangy alcoholic taste. Unless that extra temperature speeds up straining time dramatically, I think it'll require a fair bit more time to finish mostly due to all the comb and wax that tends to clog up things.

So I plan to freeze them all. After freezing, if they've been fermented they'll continue to become worse off with time huh, so I'll then be able to tell which ones are good and which ones are bad? The pressure, water, smell and flavour differences will continue to increase, right?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2018, 05:47:34 pm »
In sealed containers the fermentation can stop because it builds up with CO2 and alcohol.  When you release the CO2 the fermentation may start up again.  I will take a pic of one of my jars that started to ferment.  The honey is crystallized and I still eat it but it is not for sale.
edit:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/csFrIr2UHU0U8Pya2
These photos are taken with flash to make more contrast.  The honey is not that yellow.
At the very top of the jar you can see bubbles and a darker color in the top left photo.  The photo on the right is obviously with the cap off and the bottom photo is what happens if I pour it.  The drip is just like thin honey but it has a little apple cider zip to it.  I take a spoon and scrap off the top and eat the rest.  The rest stays crystallized and spreads like jam.
I shouldn't have left this crystallize at room temperature.  The jar in the background was crystallized in the refrigerator.  It doesn't ferment.  And it stays solid like peanut butter even after it comes to room temperature.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 06:10:33 pm by Acebird »
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2018, 06:19:17 pm »
Very interesting thanks for that Acebird.

So if the honey starts getting some sort of alcoholic, whether cider or wine flavour, that indicates it's fermenting? Does that also mean it's becoming alcoholic?

Your photos sure are interesting to look at.

What's it like to eat? Does the fermenting process slow down if it's crystallised?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2018, 09:48:46 pm »
Actually crystallization can cause fermenting because as the crystals are forming water separates out and what remains is honey with too much moisture.  Freezing prevents the yeast from growing consuming the sugar and creating alcohol.
I am sure the taste depends on how much the honey ferments.  My wife is turned off by the smell.  I think it is heavenly.  I am thinking about smuggling some down to the beefest.  I know I won't be able to get the mead down there without getting arrested.  Such a shame. :-)
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Offline omnimirage

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Re: Buckets of honeycomb infested by wax moth
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2018, 07:46:42 am »
Yeah I remember reading about that. I've seen the crystal and (is it fructose?) liquid-stuff seperate like so.

 

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