mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?

[sc-bee]

Then it wasn't me. I have met you, and you're "almost" as ugly as me.            

Yea I was going to say if it was you... "I Know where you live" 

[Jim134]

Jim, as I've said many times, after 40 years of beekeeping. I still learn something new every day. Can you give a link to some info on that waiting period? I've never heard it, and would like to know more about it.

    iddee

    I have heard these numbers in person by these people I have mentioned above.I really don't know if it is written down anywhere or not I just took their for there word for it .Been to see Fred a few times over the years hauling packages back to New England. See Larry Connors quite a number of times over the years for his Queen rearing seminar. Bonita and Dan Conlon are members of the same local county club I am at. They are also certified Queen Russian be breeders for the lasts 6 or 7 years and I see he on a regular basis.

http://www.warmcolorsapiary.com/



            BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[iddee]

Thanks, Jim. I'll see Fred at the next NC state meeting. Maybe he can shed some light on it. I've picked his brain before. Good pickin's there.

[Jim134]

     Ask him if he knows this Yankee Dan Conlon South Deerfield ,Massachusetts. I have been to Rothmans over the years but with different bee suppliers that have sense passed away.I will not be going this year for a honey bee run.




                   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[sc-bee]

Fred says good to do it but not that he does right? I sure would like to know if he sticks by his recommendation. No slam on Fred but I have my doubts... he would not get but approx. one queen a month from a nuc??? Place cell,  Queen Emerge then 1-2 wks to breed and start laying and then 28 days of laying time. Again do the math.... I imagine most pull them at the first site of eggs and at the most two weeks. JMO

[Jim134]

  Something else you may not know how to  requeen A laying worker colony successfully Dr Tom Rindere
use a ripe Queen cell laying workers will accept it 80% of the time. Dr Tom also pushes a 28 days for the Queen to they laying interrupted  remember he's not a beekeeper he is a researcher he goes by the numbers.Dr John is the one who brought Russian into the USA at Baton Rouge, Louisiana .Remember this is the ultimate ideal 28 days .Saw him it Worchester the County beekeeping Ma. club this winter..The Russian association has very strict rules that you follow because of Dr Tom they never said you were going to make money raising Russians as for the preservation of the Russian honey bee.

    These are the only places you can be sure you are getting a certified Russian queen bee . They get DNA tested all the time for purity. warm colors apiary made the cut the full blown membership in January.
http://www.russianbreeders.org/members.html





             BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[chux]

I haven't done it, but I have thought about it a bit. My thoughts are worth what you paid for them... If your goal is simply to get the queen from a mini-nuc to a regular size nuc, all you need is the queen. Don't worry about transitioning the mini-frames and comb to the full nuc. You will need to take resources from a stronger hive, to give to this nuc, either way. So just take a few frames to fill the nuc. Leave them queenless for half a day or so, then introduce the new laying queen. I have read from many long-time beeks that a queenless colony will readily accept a laying queen. Let the cup o' bees in the mini-nuc have another queen cell, or shake it out and store the box and comb for next year. You are not losing a great deal of brood because the mini-frames are so small. I wonder how you would get the comb cleaned out? 

[Dallasbeek]

Chux, that makes sense to me.  Is there somethingnwrong with that? 

[OldMech]

I haven't done it, but I have thought about it a bit. My thoughts are worth what you paid for them... If your goal is simply to get the queen from a mini-nuc to a regular size nuc, all you need is the queen. Don't worry about transitioning the mini-frames and comb to the full nuc. You will need to take resources from a stronger hive, to give to this nuc, either way. So just take a few frames to fill the nuc. Leave them queenless for half a day or so, then introduce the new laying queen. I have read from many long-time beeks that a queenless colony will readily accept a laying queen. Let the cup o' bees in the mini-nuc have another queen cell, or shake it out and store the box and comb for next year. You are not losing a great deal of brood because the mini-frames are so small. I wonder how you would get the comb cleaned out?

   Well said!  Very practical!   I wonder if an adaptor, like you would use to combine a nuc, with an excluder over it to get the brood hatched out would work?  Is that small amount of brood worth the trouble?

[rookie2531]

Thanks everyone. I was thinking that I might need to use small nucs, because I thought that coming out of winter, the colony would be reduced in size, but after my first full inspection, I have no worries. The hive is so full of bees and brood, that it took me by surprise. Worker brood and drone brood every box and almost every frame. 3 boxes full of nurse bees. They look bigger now than I have ever seen them.

Again, thanks

[Michael Bush]

I've seen one that focused on Ovariole development, but here's one that just looks at sperm counts and suvivability:
https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/03-049

A synopsis:
Research has shows that the age of the queen
when removed from the mating nucleus colony has
a significant impact on the survival of that queen at
2 and 15 weeks after introduction into another
colony.
14 days after introduction to the new colony:
There were low survival rates of queens caught at
14 days compared with 21 days of age.
At 21 days 82.5% of the queens survived.
This further improved to an average of 90% survival
for queens caught at 28 days of age.
The benefits of older caught queens (28 days) are
further illustrated after 15 weeks. Losses of queens
caught at 21 days can be expected to be 30.5%
compared to losses of queens caught at 28 days to
be 21%.
This research clearly indicates that queens caught
at 28 days for introduction into another colony are
better in the long term as far as survivability is
concerned.

From here:
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/305097/Buying-queen-bees.pdf

[Jim134]

Thank You Michael Bush

       Warm colors apiary charges is only 20% extra for certified Russian Queens which are 28 days old.(just add $5.00 to the cost pre queen} In my humble opinion well worth the price.(This is compared to southern raised Queens)
Remember these are last years prices.I don't believe Dan will be selling certified Russians Queens this year it looks like he wants to expand his Queen rearing operation.



                BEE HAPPY Jim 134   

[iddee]

MB, is that 28 days from egg, or from emergence, or from first egg layed?

[sc-bee]

MB, is that 28 days from egg, or from emergence, or from first egg layed?

I think first egg laid id... if so that would be about 2 months from start

[Michael Bush]

They are calling it "queen age" so I think they were measuring 28 days from when she emerged as an adult from the cell.

[iddee]

That's the idea I got too, MB. Now, I have had queens lay at 5 days old, and had them lay the first egg at 20 days old, so now I'm thinking, "How do they come up with a definite number of days old?" Animal or human, bodies develop at different rates. I would think they should have a better gauge of maturity than just age. Sorry, but it is leaving more questions than giving answers.

[Michael Bush]

I would tend to assume that one that started laying at 20 days should lay for a while first as the evidence seems to suggest that Ovarioles develop differently after they are mated than before (although development of some kind is taking place during both periods).

[Jim134]

         If you read both reports and anywhere else that I know of always talk about Queen age is the only difference.and the test was done by 50 or 60 Queens at a time in the age group To me it looks like the numbers given are given crossed the average of each age group.
      There is definitely develop tht taking place before and after mating. This is the very reason why some beekeepers develop their breeding program after Card's www.overlandhoney.com You put your queen cells right into 5 frame nucs and sell the nuc or use it youself





                      BEE HAPPY Jim 134   

[sc-bee]

They are calling it "queen age" so I think they were measuring 28 days from when she emerged as an adult from the cell.

 Boy did  I misunderstand that...So that really don't make much difference as I see it. If it takes 16 days to emerge maybe up to two weeks to mate and lay 16+14= 30. Well there is your 28 day queen. So what is the hoop-la.... 16 and breed and laying in five would be 21 so one more week of laying. I just don't get it???? Seems like more jibberish 

[BeeMaster2]

One thing that I just learned from my observation hive is that the bees can keep the queens locked in their cells for over a week. I have heard them piping for that long. That means that these queens hatched at 23 or more days old. I strongly suspect that these queens are just about ready to fly, probably making their orientation flights shortly after being released.
Jim