Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: rookie2531 on March 28, 2015, 10:03:20 am
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I want to make some mini nucs, but am not sure how to make the transition between getting them from the mini nuc to the regular size nuc. Don't the larvae have to be put in the regular sized nuc too? Sorry if in wrong category, but didn't know if it was a queen or equipment topic.
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Are you saying "mini nucs" meaning the frames are something other than standard size, or what? Your question has been opened and read by a lot of people and nobody has answered because maybe nobody understands what you are asking.
Usually a nuc is just a box with fewer frames -- 2, 4, 5 or something -- instead of 8 or 10 frames. You'd normally use the size frame compatible with the size hive you'll eventually move the bees into. At least, that's my understanding. You could use frames that belong in a deep box, for example.
Clarify your question and you'll be more likely to get a bunch of answers. Some might even agree with the others :shocked:
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I want to make some mini nucs, but am not sure how to make the transition between getting them from the mini nuc to the regular size nuc. Don't the larvae have to be put in the regular sized nuc too? Sorry if in wrong category, but didn't know if it was a queen or equipment topic.
Personally I did not see why anybody that is making under a 100 queens per year what even need mini nucs for queen rearing .Maybe you are bigger than I think you are in beekeeping in that case my answer would be completely different. (stick with standard equipment if you are doing under 100 queens per year )
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
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Are you saying "mini nucs" meaning the frames are something other than standard size, or what? Your question has been opened and read by a lot of people and nobody has answered because maybe nobody understands what you are asking.
Usually a nuc is just a box with fewer frames -- 2, 4, 5 or something -- instead of 8 or 10 frames. You'd normally use the size frame compatible with the size hive you'll eventually move the bees into. At least, that's my understanding. You could use frames that belong in a deep box, for example.
Clarify your question and you'll be more likely to get a bunch of answers. Some might even agree with the others :shocked:
Yes he is talking a mini-nuc with mini nuc size frames. I don't know the dimension but they are very small frames about half the size or smaller than a medium. And I have no idea about transfer and I think most folks that sideline use standard equipment. And the nucs are usually to breed the queen remove her, cage her, sale her, or place her. Not to make a transition to other size equipment.
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Relieved to hear that someone else didn't quite understand the question being asked. :smile:
Mini-nucs are usually used to get virgin queens mated, and nucs are used to initially 'grow' a small colony - i.e. these boxes are used for quite different purposes, and in my experience it's not usual practice to transfer one over to the other as they have different sized frames.
There is one notable exception to this, and that is the system used by Mike Palmer. Mike has developed a system using half-sized nuc boxes having two configurations. One configuration has normal-sized frames running lengthwise, with the other configuration having frames running transversely - i.e. across the box. In the latter case, the frames are of course much smaller, around half the length of a normal frame. Because the two configurations live in boxes having identical footprints, they can be very easily placed one above the other ... so, for example, a box of bare mating-nuc frames could be easily drawn-out by placing them above an occupied nuc box, and at the end of the season any remaining brood and stores in those mating-nuc frames could be absorbed into a nuc by placing that box underneath it. (Mike doesn't actually do this - but it's what I'll be doing myself later-on this year) A very clever set-up.
Indeed, it's possible to convert the mating-nuc version of the half-sized nuc box into two separate mating nucs by simply inserting a suitable division board. Mike has developed a double-sided feeder which acts as a division board, which can also be moved to one end of the box in order to provide double the space as the nuc begins to grow. All-in-all a very flexible system. If you're planning on making your own kit anyway, then this is a system well-worth considering. There are a couple of YouTube videos showing Mike's system in action, if you Google "Michael Palmer Sustainable Apiary".
LJ
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O.K. Jim, I am thinking of making around 50, with some for sale and extra for myself if they dont make it back from mating.
SC, I was on the thought of maybe being able to make more colonies with less bees so they can keep the brood warm in a smaller space. then transfering them into a 2 or 3 frame regular sized nuc, then a five framer and so on.
thanks for the info. I am thinking about trying a slide in frame. Something like the mini vhs tapes that went into the old recorders and then you would pop them in a regular vhs dummy holder so you could play it in the vcr. That way she will still have her pheromones and brood in the bigger nuc and have better acceptance. That is my thought process anyway.
LJ, thats is a nice idea, if i understand you correctly. Like making mini frame box that will sit on a regular frame box and just let the queen move to those bigger frames and start laying there? I already made some mating nucs out of 10 frame boxes with the dividers. Maybe another couple projects on nthe horizon.
Thanks again to all for your input..
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rookie, here's a thread you may want to review. There's a few ideas in itfor what you are asking.
http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,3479.0.html
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Mini Nucs are for placing capped queen cell.... because they take very few bees to warm them. As far as starting a colony and grwoing it to full frames from the mini nucs... seems to me you are spinning your wheels. Just go with 2- 5 frame full nics IMHO. But you got it thought out in your head and I may be missing something :)
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rookie2531
You do realize it is not a good practice to interrupt the queen for the first 28 days of her laying.The reason for this if Queens does get interrupted they usually do not reach their full potential. What you see is Queens that get superseded, poor laying pattern and just not enough volume.You will find breeders and teachers who agree on this such Dr. Larry Connors, Fred Rossman and the local certified Russian beekeeper in Massachusetts. This is one of the biggest reasons why you can raise queen bees in your backyard better than most professionals.IMHO mini mating nucs does not have enough room for this.I do hope you the best for your in all your avengers in beekeeping and I also hope you are a little better educated after have read all the posts.
Remember this is what they told me the ideal time was 28 days.Of interrupted laying of a new queen
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
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The best option I have seen is to make a standard frame that the mini frames will slide into, then you can place them into a standard hive. I agree that unless you are trying to make a LOT of queens you really dont need mini mating nucs. Use three to five frame standard nucs, they do the job well.. they also provide you with extra "worker" comb, bees and brood to add to production hives. Maintaining a few standard size nucs has a lot of advantages.
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rookie2531
You do realize it is not a good practice to interrupt the queen for the first 28 days of her laying.The reason for this if Queens does get interrupted they usually do not reach their full potential. What you see is Queens that get superseded, poor laying pattern and just not enough volume.You will find breeders and teachers who agree on this such Dr. Larry Connors, Fred Rossman and the local certified Russian beekeeper in Massachusetts.
And do you think commercial queen breeder a or b or c does this. I bet noooot. It would cost them too much money tying up their mating nucs. And you are right that is why should try to raise their own.
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rookie2531
You do realize it is not a good practice to interrupt the queen for the first 28 days of her laying.The reason for this if Queens does get interrupted they usually do not reach their full potential. What you see is Queens that get superseded, poor laying pattern and just not enough volume.You will find breeders and teachers who agree on this such Dr. Larry Connors, Fred Rossman and the local certified Russian beekeeper in Massachusetts.
And do you think commercial queen breeder a or b or c does this. I bet noooot. It would cost them too much money tying up their mating nucs. And you are right that is why should try to raise their own.
I did Not know that. I always thought it was a week or two. How many backyarders do you think wait for 1.5 months after rearing to do their first inspection?
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Jim, as I've said many times, after 40 years of beekeeping. I still learn something new every day. Can you give a link to some info on that waiting period? I've never heard it, and would like to know more about it.
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I hope that Michael Bush doesn't mind me copying this from his web site:
Quality. Nothing is more important to success in beekeeping than the queen. The quality of your queens can often surpass that of a queen breeder. You have the time to spend to do things that a commercial breeder cannot afford to do. For instance, research has shown that a queen that is allowed to lay up until it's 21 days will be a better queen with better developed ovarioles than one that is banked sooner. A longer wait will help even more, but that first 21 days is much more critical. A commercial queen producer typically looks for eggs at two weeks and if there are any it is banked and eventually shipped. You can let yours develop better by spending more time.
It's under his queen rearing section. I think that I've read it somewhere else too, but I can't remember where.
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Yes, I've read that, but I don't remember a link to the ""research"" that determined that.
Also, I go with a dealer here to Ga. to pick up 200 nucs in April. The breeder shakes the bees and picks the queens from the mating nucs the day we get there. They are not banked. I can see where the banking of queens may cause problems, but the laying time factor is what I want more info on.
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rookie2531
You do realize it is not a good practice to interrupt the queen for the first 28 days of her laying.The reason for this if Queens does get interrupted they usually do not reach their full potential. What you see is Queens that get superseded, poor laying pattern and just not enough volume.You will find breeders and teachers who agree on this such Dr. Larry Connors, Fred Rossman and the local certified Russian beekeeper in Massachusetts.
And do you think commercial queen breeder a or b or c does this. I bet noooot. It would cost them too much money tying up their mating nucs. And you are right that is why should try to raise their own.
I did Not know that. I always thought it was a week or two. How many backyarders do you think wait for 1.5 months after rearing to do their first inspection?
It is not inspection that is meant... it is interrupting the queen laying cycle/pattern as in pull her and putting her in a cage where she will either sit before shipment and also be caged until you get her releases to your hive. Inspections are fine.
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Yes, I've read that, but I don't remember a link to the ""research"" that determined that.
Also, I go with a dealer here to Ga. to pick up 200 nucs in April. The breeder shakes the bees and picks the queens from the mating nucs the day we get there. They are not banked. I can see where the banking of queens may cause problems, but the laying time factor is what I want more info on.
You sound like someone on a facebook site that jumped all over me.... give me proof bleh they said. How much of what you do is steeped in beekeeping pass down/ knowledge vs scientific proof id :wink: Surely we are having some kind of problems if not many with commercial queens. I have yet to find a commercial source I am pleased with...
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WHOA, sc. I ain't jumpin' nobody.
I'm just curious if there is some real research on this or if it's just more hand-me-down like you mentioned, or
could it be grafted queens are inferior, or
could it be the banking of queens, or
could it be the mating by drones from the same lines as their mother, grandmothers, and on and on for generations in the same apiary, or
etc. etc. etc.
I just want to read as much about it as I can, since I know nothing about it up to now.
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WHOA, sc. I ain't jumpin' nobody.
Naw I did not mean you were id :) Maybe I was not clear...I was just referring to I got jumped on facebook, the conversation thereon fb was a little arrogant and nasty IMHO.....amazing the qualities a keyboard and a little reading brings out in folks miles away you have never met :angry:
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Then it wasn't me. I have met you, and you're "almost" as ugly as me. :angry: :wink: :grin: :grin:
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Then it wasn't me. I have met you, and you're "almost" as ugly as me. :angry: :wink: :grin: :grin:
Yea I was going to say if it was you... "I Know where you live" :wink:
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Jim, as I've said many times, after 40 years of beekeeping. I still learn something new every day. Can you give a link to some info on that waiting period? I've never heard it, and would like to know more about it.
iddee
I have heard these numbers in person by these people I have mentioned above.I really don't know if it is written down anywhere or not I just took their for there word for it .Been to see Fred a few times over the years hauling packages back to New England. See Larry Connors quite a number of times over the years for his Queen rearing seminar. Bonita and Dan Conlon are members of the same local county club I am at. They are also certified Queen Russian be breeders for the lasts 6 or 7 years and I see he on a regular basis.
http://www.warmcolorsapiary.com/
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
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Thanks, Jim. I'll see Fred at the next NC state meeting. Maybe he can shed some light on it. I've picked his brain before. Good pickin's there.
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Ask him if he knows this Yankee Dan Conlon South Deerfield ,Massachusetts. I have been to Rothmans over the years but with different bee suppliers that have sense passed away.I will not be going this year for a honey bee run.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
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Fred says good to do it but not that he does right? I sure would like to know if he sticks by his recommendation. No slam on Fred but I have my doubts... he would not get but approx. one queen a month from a nuc??? Place cell, Queen Emerge then 1-2 wks to breed and start laying and then 28 days of laying time. Again do the math.... I imagine most pull them at the first site of eggs and at the most two weeks. JMO
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Something else you may not know how to requeen A laying worker colony successfully Dr Tom Rindere
use a ripe Queen cell laying workers will accept it 80% of the time. Dr Tom also pushes a 28 days for the Queen to they laying interrupted remember he's not a beekeeper he is a researcher he goes by the numbers.Dr John is the one who brought Russian into the USA at Baton Rouge, Louisiana .Remember this is the ultimate ideal 28 days .Saw him it Worchester the County beekeeping Ma. club this winter..The Russian association has very strict rules that you follow because of Dr Tom they never said you were going to make money raising Russians as for the preservation of the Russian honey bee.
These are the only places you can be sure you are getting a certified Russian queen bee . They get DNA tested all the time for purity. warm colors apiary made the cut the full blown membership in January.
http://www.russianbreeders.org/members.html
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
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I haven't done it, but I have thought about it a bit. My thoughts are worth what you paid for them... If your goal is simply to get the queen from a mini-nuc to a regular size nuc, all you need is the queen. Don't worry about transitioning the mini-frames and comb to the full nuc. You will need to take resources from a stronger hive, to give to this nuc, either way. So just take a few frames to fill the nuc. Leave them queenless for half a day or so, then introduce the new laying queen. I have read from many long-time beeks that a queenless colony will readily accept a laying queen. Let the cup o' bees in the mini-nuc have another queen cell, or shake it out and store the box and comb for next year. You are not losing a great deal of brood because the mini-frames are so small. I wonder how you would get the comb cleaned out?
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Chux, that makes sense to me. Is there somethingnwrong with that?
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I haven't done it, but I have thought about it a bit. My thoughts are worth what you paid for them... If your goal is simply to get the queen from a mini-nuc to a regular size nuc, all you need is the queen. Don't worry about transitioning the mini-frames and comb to the full nuc. You will need to take resources from a stronger hive, to give to this nuc, either way. So just take a few frames to fill the nuc. Leave them queenless for half a day or so, then introduce the new laying queen. I have read from many long-time beeks that a queenless colony will readily accept a laying queen. Let the cup o' bees in the mini-nuc have another queen cell, or shake it out and store the box and comb for next year. You are not losing a great deal of brood because the mini-frames are so small. I wonder how you would get the comb cleaned out?
Well said! Very practical! I wonder if an adaptor, like you would use to combine a nuc, with an excluder over it to get the brood hatched out would work? Is that small amount of brood worth the trouble?
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Thanks everyone. I was thinking that I might need to use small nucs, because I thought that coming out of winter, the colony would be reduced in size, but after my first full inspection, I have no worries. The hive is so full of bees and brood, that it took me by surprise. Worker brood and drone brood every box and almost every frame. 3 boxes full of nurse bees. They look bigger now than I have ever seen them.
Again, thanks
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I've seen one that focused on Ovariole development, but here's one that just looks at sperm counts and suvivability:
https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/03-049
A synopsis:
Research has shows that the age of the queen
when removed from the mating nucleus colony has
a significant impact on the survival of that queen at
2 and 15 weeks after introduction into another
colony.
14 days after introduction to the new colony:
There were low survival rates of queens caught at
14 days compared with 21 days of age.
At 21 days 82.5% of the queens survived.
This further improved to an average of 90% survival
for queens caught at 28 days of age.
The benefits of older caught queens (28 days) are
further illustrated after 15 weeks. Losses of queens
caught at 21 days can be expected to be 30.5%
compared to losses of queens caught at 28 days to
be 21%.
This research clearly indicates that queens caught
at 28 days for introduction into another colony are
better in the long term as far as survivability is
concerned.
From here:
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/305097/Buying-queen-bees.pdf
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Thank You Michael Bush
Warm colors apiary charges is only 20% extra for certified Russian Queens which are 28 days old.(just add $5.00 to the cost pre queen} In my humble opinion well worth the price.(This is compared to southern raised Queens)
Remember these are last years prices.I don't believe Dan will be selling certified Russians Queens this year it looks like he wants to expand his Queen rearing operation.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
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MB, is that 28 days from egg, or from emergence, or from first egg layed?
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MB, is that 28 days from egg, or from emergence, or from first egg layed?
I think first egg laid id... if so that would be about 2 months from start
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They are calling it "queen age" so I think they were measuring 28 days from when she emerged as an adult from the cell.
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That's the idea I got too, MB. Now, I have had queens lay at 5 days old, and had them lay the first egg at 20 days old, so now I'm thinking, "How do they come up with a definite number of days old?" Animal or human, bodies develop at different rates. I would think they should have a better gauge of maturity than just age. Sorry, but it is leaving more questions than giving answers.
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I would tend to assume that one that started laying at 20 days should lay for a while first as the evidence seems to suggest that Ovarioles develop differently after they are mated than before (although development of some kind is taking place during both periods).
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If you read both reports and anywhere else that I know of always talk about Queen age is the only difference.and the test was done by 50 or 60 Queens at a time in the age group To me it looks like the numbers given are given crossed the average of each age group.
There is definitely develop tht taking place before and after mating. This is the very reason why some beekeepers develop their breeding program after Card's www.overlandhoney.com You put your queen cells right into 5 frame nucs and sell the nuc or use it youself
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
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They are calling it "queen age" so I think they were measuring 28 days from when she emerged as an adult from the cell.
Boy did I misunderstand that...So that really don't make much difference as I see it. If it takes 16 days to emerge maybe up to two weeks to mate and lay 16+14= 30. Well there is your 28 day queen. So what is the hoop-la.... 16 and breed and laying in five would be 21 so one more week of laying. I just don't get it???? Seems like more jibberish :shocked:
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One thing that I just learned from my observation hive is that the bees can keep the queens locked in their cells for over a week. I have heard them piping for that long. That means that these queens hatched at 23 or more days old. I strongly suspect that these queens are just about ready to fly, probably making their orientation flights shortly after being released.
Jim
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Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."
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Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."
After cell addition.... and you would add/move the queen cell on day 14, is this not correct? So 21-28 days after cell addition? Back up to 34-42 days. Did I do the math right?
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sc-bee
So we are all on the same page use this calendar
http://www.thebeeyard.org/queen-rearing-calendar/
Remember this calendar take into consideration you are using 3 day old eggs to graft with.Now redo your math.
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
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I thought I understood the bee math maybe not :oops: The comment was Larry Connor said 21-28 days after the addition . So I guess my question is addition of what... cell to the mating Nuc and what day does Dr. Connor recommend moving it? Day 8 after capped or I hear many say don't move till day 14 because you will damage the queen. I think it makes a difference in the math right? Or have I missed something?
Not in a position to be able to use the link at this time due to computer issues.
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Now you can see why I started with the questions. Not very precise writings there. I know I don't have a clear picture, and doubt they did.
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Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."
28 days after the birth of Queen.
If you want to start with the egg to the finish 43 days.Dr Larry Connors suggest you move the cells on the 14th or 15th day. (A day or 2 before the queen's emerge on day16) I do realize the day the Queen gets born is the first day of her life so the total time from egg to adult queen is 43 days.
sc- bee you add 14 days and 28 days.
It should have been 15 days and 28 days
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
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Thanks for the link Jim.
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Boy, I have learned a lot from this thread. Thanks for all the questions and answers.
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Boy, I have learned a lot from this thread.
Wish I had ... :smile:
There are four possible scenarios I can see, each of which will disrupt the life of the queen to different degrees, so I reckon it's important to make distinctions between these scenarios when considering any data from research in this area:
1) Mated queen is moved - along with mating-nuc combs and bees from mating nuc into a larger nuc. Either by placing the larger nuc above the mating nuc, or using some kind of frame adapter.
2) Mated queen is removed from mating nuc and immediately placed in a larger nuc box - perhaps in a large introduction cage which permits some laying - with new (to her) combs and bees.
3) Mated queen is removed and placed into a mailing cage, dispatched immediately and subsequently introduced to a nucleus colony, such that laying is only interrupted for a few days.
4) Mated queen is removed and placed into a queen banking cage and held there for several weeks until sold.
As you can see, I've listed these in order of assumed severity of disruption to the normal life of the mated queen. Unless we know - unambiguously - in what manner the mated queen has been re-located, any data relating to this is (imo) fairly meaningless.
LJ
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByC3uaCiy9xpLXZjX1hIWld6NUk/view?usp=docslist_api
Finally, this was exactly what I was trying to envision. Only took me 9 months to find. Page 2 has the clip that will enable, not only drawing the frames, but adding to full size boxes, once done mating her.
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For a more conventional file containing this info:
http://www.michiganbees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Mini-Nucs_20150130.pdf
LJ
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That is a very informative bit of info. Thank you.
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I now have a new project for this winter. I will bee making 2 medium, 4 chamber mini nucs out of cypress for spring.
Jim
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>Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."
This is to allow the queen's ovarioles to completely develop.
http://www.apidologie.org/index.php?option=com_article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/apido/pdf/2004/04/M4018.pdf
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>Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."
This is to allow the queen's ovarioles to completely develop.
http://www.apidologie.org/index.php?option=com_article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/apido/pdf/2004/04/M4018.pdf
Very good info, but what I'm thinking, is not caging the queens ever for intro. But rather using less resources to get them mated and once I am sure she mated and laying. Add brood and nurse bees from a different hive and add her smaller frames with her on it to a 3-5 frame nuc. This way she doesn't stop laying and I don't have to worry about her colony having to protect too much space.
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I see the British have a different idea. :shocked:
Something you might like to consider.
If you made your own you might go this way with a normal frame size 1/3 so you could reuse the frames and bees in normal production hives or nucs and even in mini mating nucs
https://www.thorne.co.uk/queen/mating-hives?product_id=5717
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5714
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :smile:
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Jim, that's another good one. You have been holding out on me this whole time.☺
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I see the British have a different idea. :shocked:
Something you might like to consider.
Barmy, or what ? Just wait until the bees have stuck some propolis onto that contraption - and then see if it folds out nicely ...
... and 7 GB pounds a pop - for those with deep pockets and no experience.
If you want mating-nuc frames, why not make your own ? This is a half-size frame along the same lines as used by Mike Palmer :
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2mo7ewp.jpg)
If you want them smaller, make them 'shallow'-deep; larger, then 'deep'-deep. Cost - nothing in materials. Just a little time ... and you should only need to make them once, so it's hardly a major drain on resources.
LJ
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Good point LJ. They will be glued up real good.
Jim
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Here is a Mini Mating Nuc Walter T Kelley offers this was in the 2015 catalog. Something you might like to see. This is a medium frame : nuc with a frames put in the short way and a division board in the middle so you can have two end to end
Catalog number is 940
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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Even though the hinged area will become gummed up, this is another example of what I was asking for. Thanks Jim.
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I realize this is an older thread but it is interesting. It is good to see some of the members that postered are still active here at beemaster. I will add, there is a breeder in Georgia that uses a 2 frame full size Nuc that he calls 'his mini mating nuc'. He says the two full deep frames insure a little more time for the queen to develop yet avoid overcrowding during the same pitch.
Phillip
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Phil,
Before I knew what a mini mating nuc was I thought it was a "Klindworther" and thats what I built based on a youtube video on Heathland Beekeeping 4 Work in a Heather Skep Apiary during the Castswarming.
Skep beekeepers in Germany had been using them for a long time. That summer I had excellent results and still use them today. That same summer I was talking Dennis vanEngelsdorp about them and he said, "Oh yeah mini mating nucs, every large queen producer in California uses them". The idea that queens are underdeveloped or inferior because of minis is false, otherwise old time skep or Cali beekeepers wouldn't have used them.
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Yes I don't think David in Georgia was 'so much' worried about the 'developing part', (though the two full frames do allow more room for laying than a real 'mini' mating nuc ), as much as he is concerned about the fast overcrowding part in a true 'mini' mating nuc. It is my understanding he has many mating nucs to tend to, that his time might not allow him to go through them fast enough. It is also my understanding that fast overcrowding and swarming is his real concern from my understanding.
Your post is very interesting and I appreciate you sharing the information. When I looked up Klindworther I found no pictures. I am not familiar with those. But by your recommendation, I am interested in learning more.
Thanks,
Phillip
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When I looked up Klindworther I found no pictures. I am not familiar with those. But by your recommendation, I am interested in learning more.
You probably won't, you'll have to watch the video. It's not very long. I know there's a dusty shelf in Saxony somewhere with a Kindworther sitting on it. I would love to have one.