Author Topic: Shake out vs newspaper combine (Read 3849 times)

tjc1 · « **on:** August 08, 2016, 03:10:32 pm »

When do you do one rather than the other? My nuc that has failed to get a queen going will need to be combined with my other hive. I was planning on doing the newspaper combine, but is there some reason it would be better to do a shake out?

Jim134 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 08, 2016, 03:32:09 pm »

The scenariol give I have used both. It really depends on the situation. Are these bees in my backyard or are they and hour from the house.? For me each situation is judged and handled differently.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134

gww · « **Reply #2 on:** August 08, 2016, 04:13:50 pm »

tjc
If laying workers have started laying it might not be good to newspaper combine. If the queen was a drone layer it might make a differrence. I combined 2 swarms and believe both had queens. There may be some risk in that but it seems to have worked out for me.
I am new so take anything I write with a grain of salt.
Good luck
gww

MikeyN.C. · « **Reply #3 on:** August 08, 2016, 04:37:57 pm »

How much time do you have before last flow or cold weather ? I've done shake out it's not pleasing to the eye, screen combine has worked for me , if ya have enough time and works well

flyboy · « **Reply #4 on:** August 08, 2016, 04:53:59 pm »

Excuse my ignorance but what is a newspaper combine.

Psparr · « **Reply #5 on:** August 08, 2016, 05:14:49 pm »

Quote from: flyboy on August 08, 2016, 04:53:59 pm

Excuse my ignorance but what is a newspaper combine.

You take the inner cover off the Queenright hive, and place a piece of newspaper over the top box. Then just place the queenless boxes on top of that. By the time the bees chew through the newspaper they will be one hive.

Jim134 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2016, 05:33:04 pm »

Quote from: flyboy on August 08, 2016, 04:53:59 pm

Excuse my ignorance but what is a newspaper combine.

It's been my experience you're much better off to put the queen right hive on top. Of the Queenless hive. The same thing holds true weak hive on the bottom. Strong hive on the top.

https://youtu.be/voxPI0eTQus

BEE HAPPY Jim 134

Michael Bush · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2016, 10:15:42 am »

For laying workers, I would shake them out. For a weak little hive combined with a strong hive, I'd shake them out. For a more even combine, I would use the newspaper.

Rurification · « **Reply #8 on:** August 09, 2016, 01:44:49 pm »

Michael - for a weak/strong hive combo, you'd shake out the weaker hive, right? - and let them beg to join the stronger one?

Michael Bush · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2016, 03:44:15 pm »

> for a weak/strong hive combo, you'd shake out the weaker hive, right? - and let them beg to join the stronger one?

Yes. It's simple and is least likely to end poorly.

Caribou · « **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2016, 05:25:38 pm »

So Michael, use the weak queen as an olive in a vodka martini and add any brood into the strong hive?

tjc1 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2016, 05:28:53 pm »

In a shake out, how is it that the other hive doesn't react as if being invaded by robbers?

Michael Bush · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2016, 06:33:44 pm »

>In a shake out, how is it that the other hive doesn't react as if being invaded by robbers?

Robbers come in like robbers... beggers come in like beggers...

>So Michael, use the weak queen as an olive in a vodka martini and add any brood into the strong hive?

Vodka or everclear or rubbing alcohol to make swarm lure... if you can find her and if you know which is the weaker queen... if you shake the out in front of the hive you wish to combine them with, the queen will get stopped at the door and you should be able to get her...

MikeyN.C. · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2016, 03:50:03 pm »

I'm I missing something here the newspaper com. takes 3 days right with still the possibility of queen rite hive losing the queen ? Where as you use screen comb. over a 7 day period to recognize a strong queen, what am I missing here, if I have 100 hives a can consider a shake out, but if I'm working with 4 hives and have a weak hive I'll continue to comb. this way .I'm trying my best

tjc1 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2016, 04:42:47 pm »

OK, now it's my turn! Can you describe the screen combine?

texanbelchers · « **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2016, 02:56:05 pm »

The screen combine uses a double screen board to allow the pheromones to mix. http://honeybeesuite.com/uses-of-a-double-screen-board/

I like the idea and functions of a double screen or Snelgrove board, but haven't obtained one yet. Unless I want the bees to end up in a specific box I find a shake out much quicker. I generally don't shake complete boxes unless I'm doing a Taranov split. However, I'm getting ready to do some to get them on new equipment. And, I have a laying worker hive that I'll shake if they kill the queen cells I just gave them.

Michael Bush · « **Reply #16 on:** August 11, 2016, 04:38:42 pm »

>I'm I missing something here the newspaper com. takes 3 days right with still the possibility of queen rite hive losing the queen ?

Yes.

> Where as you use screen comb. over a 7 day period to recognize a strong queen

I would say 14 days to be safe, but 7 may be enough.

>, what am I missing here, if I have 100 hives a can consider a shake out, but if I'm working with 4 hives and have a weak hive I'll continue to comb. this way .

It doesn't matter how many hives. The screen works because the smell of the open brood sets back the laying workers and the queen's smell is now familiar to the queenless part.

MikeyN.C. · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2016, 06:04:52 pm »

Thanks MB, I'm a newbeek had a LW hive last yr. iddee explained to me, if caught early enough it can be used to your on personal benefit with only a few hives and worked, we used a innercover with a 6x6 hole stapled screen door wire ( ya can use screen door wire instead of innercover) LW hive over Q rite hive for 7 days ( LW hive with upper entrance) after 7 to 12 days inspect LW hive if they have smelled the strong queen they'll stop laying , and that's what you look for double eggs if you don't have any then remove screen and close off top entrance and combine, check in a week and see if ya need to reduce size of box, drones from LW will be gone .

MikeyN.C. · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2016, 06:12:55 pm »

I should have said this works if you have time in the year to do this , where as a shake out is automatic.

Johnny · « **Reply #19 on:** August 22, 2016, 05:52:04 pm »

A pollinating beekeeper is soon moving his beehives away from a nearby farm. Last year when he left there were about 5 gallons of bees where his hives used to be. Last year they slowly died in a pile of bees. Is there anything to be done with the left behind bees. Such as adding them to my hives or putting eggs and brood in a new hive and let them raise a new queen or is it too late? This is in west Texas.