russian bees

[ndvan]

I have some questions about russian bees, which are:

1.  I have read that they constantly build queen cells, even when they have no real plan to swarm.  Do people who keep these bees have that experience?  If so, what do you do?  How do you know when they mean business and really intend to swarm?  Are they pretty swarmy all the time?  What in the world are they doing?

2.  I have read that they have a really small winter cluster but get going when there is pollen.  Where I live, there is pollen nearly all year.  If there is pollen available in January and warm weather, will the bees start brood rearing that early?  Will that mean that swarm prevention measures need to be implemented much earlier than with Italians?

Ok, I guess that's more than two questions. 

Anybody got any thoughts on this. 

[Mici]

from your description, i'd say these are carniolan bees

about swarming...i'd say this has changed a bit. throu decades of exporting bees-that is rush feeding-forcing them to swarm, bees have adopted this way, that's why they started the "swarming with no reason" thing. this is slowly changing, but i don't have experience with it jet, since it was my first year.

this year is like you all know, extreme, hazel tree has already blossomed so yeah, they're bringing in loads of pollen (this should happen somewhere in the end of february, i'm not sure) they're rearing lots of brood, i was at the local beekeeping society meeting, some say they have up to 3 frames of brood, and this oughta be a problem if cold kicks in.


carniolans overwinter with pollen, that's why they have a faster spring build-up than other species. the bottom line is, bees can adept to some degree, especially about the pollen thing you're worried about.

[lively Bee's]

I tested russians in one of my yards I had 5 russian hives

"1.  I have read that they constantly build queen cells, even when they have no real plan to swarm.  Do people who keep these bees have that experience?  If so, what do you do?  How do you know when they mean business and really intend to swarm?  Are they pretty swarmy all the time?  What in the world are they doing?"

I can only tell you my experience
I found unfinished queen cells in all of my hive and they build them out 3/4" or so and that is it mosst of them was on the bottom of the frames. I did nothing with them I had one of the 5 to swarm in 2 years.

"2.  I have read that they have a really small winter cluster but get going when there is pollen.  Where I live, there is pollen nearly all year.  If there is pollen available in January and warm weather, will the bees start brood rearing that early?  Will that mean that swarm prevention measures need to be implemented much earlier than with Italians?"

They do winter in a small cluster some of mine were only the size of a grape fruit and only covering 2 - 2 1/2 frames.  I noted that they would be out working when the temps were in the low 40's but as far as a early build up maybe 2 - 3 weeks faster then my italians. 

I lost 14 hives in that out yard this year including all of the russians and I fell it was due to some kind of poison.  So that was my hard leason on pollination.

I was going to replace them this year with 20 new russian packages but I worked a deal with a local sideliner and I am going to buy all of his spring splits.

Hope this helps
Keith

[Finsky]

Russian bees are much discussed.   I wonder how can I notice swarming wills when they have all the time queen cells?

in USA Russians are admired from edge to edge. In Europe we have varroa in coltrol and we have not such panic to believe all what people want to believe. Germans have just made researches too and they have Carniolan stocks which kill mites as well as Russians. That Carniolan sperms was brought to New Zealand to breed mite tolereant bees. But since that very few we can read from NZ.

http://www.mamamoer.nl/ddb/blz/rapportprimoengels2002.pdf

Here is 23 pages explanation from primorsky/Russian bee during years 2001 -2002.

They compared Russian with Carniolan hives ( 11 both)

There they say that the biggest explanation to mite resistant with Russian is that bees pull varroa contaminated pupae out. It leads in dramatic diminishing of colony.

Carniolans gathered 28% more honey.

To may who had trusted that Russian can manage with varroa, it has been a disappointment. They have less mites but not enough less.

.

[Michael Bush]

>1.  I have read that they constantly build queen cells, even when they have no real plan to swarm.  Do people who keep these bees have that experience?

Not cells.  Just cups.  Just a round shape with no egg, no larvae, no hanging down part to it, just a cup.

> If so, what do you do?

Absolutely nothing.

>  How do you know when they mean business and really intend to swarm?

They will build a cell hanging down with a larvae in it and they will usually build it on the bottom.  The cups are usually like supercedure cells, up in the middle.

>  Are they pretty swarmy all the time?

Not mine.

>  What in the world are they doing?

Having a cup handy in case they need a queen, is my guess.

>2.  I have read that they have a really small winter cluster but get going when there is pollen.

Yes.

> Where I live, there is pollen nearly all year.  If there is pollen available in January and warm weather, will the bees start brood rearing that early?

I've seen most bees raise little patches of brood as early as Chistmas.  Some Italians will have a serious brood nest going by late January.

> Will that mean that swarm prevention measures need to be implemented much earlier than with Italians?

No.  But you will have to keep an eye on them because they build up quickly when they do build up.  I wouldn't expect it earlier than Italians.  I'd expect it LATER than Italians.

[Finsky]

>1.  I have read that they constantly build queen cells, even when they have no real plan to swarm.  Do people who keep these bees have that experience?

Not cells.  Just cups. 

Here it said that cells? This is quite new but I could not find the date.
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/PDF%20files/2.16.pdf

[Michael Bush]

I have not seen cells.  Just the round part of a cup with no larvae.

[Finsky]

I have not seen cells.  Just the round part of a cup with no larvae.

Those cups are usual in every hives during summer. It is not special feature.

[ndvan]

Thanks for the info.  I do have some follow ups.

As to Finsky and the carniolians, I have thought about getting NWC bees, but there are two things holding me back.  People I have talked to indicate that they have tried them in my area and not really liked them for here.  I may try them at some future time.  I have not really heard good reports about Russians here, but I have not heard anything at all.  Some people in Arkansas use them and like them, which is close.  Also, I want to use small cell bees, and I cannot find anybody who ships small cell nucs of carnis.

1.  Where I live is an urban area, and there are some early blooming plants, such as maple, willow, pear, redbud and dogwood.  Will I miss out on part of that action with Russians and/or does that indicate that maybe Italians could be better for my locale.

2.  I have read quite a bit about swarm prevention techniques, but I'm a little unclear on when you implement them.  Is there something objective to look for to let you know its time?  Is it strictly by the calendar?  I know that a "crowded brood nest area" is key, but what exactly does that mean?

3.  To Mr. Bush, did you get your Russians from FB man in GA?  Do you like them?  (Based on your advice and others' Ive ordered from him.  Don't have the bees yet, but he is really helpful and I can tell has good customer service.

Thanks

ndvan

[Michael Bush]

>Those cups are usual in every hives during summer. It is not special feature.

Agreed.  You just see more of them in the Russian hives.

>3.  To Mr. Bush, did you get your Russians from FB man in GA?

No.

>  Do you like them?

I don't have them anymore.  They were ok, but I prefer the feral survivors.