Will the bee except a laying queen over a virgin queen in a hive

[billdean]

March 31 I open my over winter hive. Nice day, sunny 70*. I found the queen and decided to mark her. Not the best decision i've made. Things went well so I thought. April 14 I went back in the hive to make sure she was laying. The bees were so hot that I just closed the hive up. Never seen them like this. After thinking about it for another week April 19, I was sure they must of been queenless so I when in again. They were nice and calm but I did find 5 hatched emergency queen cells. The problem is there are no drones in any of my hives here in central Michigan. So I am thinking I have a virgin queen that will probably never get mated. Today I purchased a mated queen. I put the queen in the cage on the top frames and the bees seem to except her. They were not biting at the cage and I could easily move them with my finger. So I am confused on wether there is or is not a virgin queen in the hive? I took a frame of emerging brood from another hive with a little honey and put the mated queen under a push-in cage. Just her no attendants then stuck it back in the hive. I plan on coming back in 3 or 4 days and check to see if she is laying and wether they have actually excepted her.

[TheHoneyPump]

Interesting scenario and great question!

The bees likely will accept the mated queen. However, the VQ will seek to find her and kill her.

That the laying queen is under a cage is good.  Very good.  This buys you some time to figure it out.

On a quiet day, sit next to the hive and listen carefully.  If you hear piping ... that is one way of confirming that the risk remains;  queens priming for a battle royale.  No piping does NOT mean that there is not still a VQ present.

Virgin queens are not that hard to find, unless the hive is very populous. While their abdomen will be small and about same size as that of a bee, there is no mistaking her large thorax and long sexy legs. Though she will certainly move faster than you would expect of a queen.

There are ways and tools sort and find queens you cannot see and protect the mated queen.  The methods involve using queen excluder(s).

[Bee North]

Im a bit of a newbee but just thought i would share all the same.
This year i did a split with a number of queen cells. After 5 weeks i had no sign of a mated queen and assumed the hive queenless.
I introduced a purchased mated queen. The hive accepted her. ...The hive swarmed 4 days later!
The purchased mated queen was marked and is still in the hive doing a great job. The hive must have swarmed with a virgin queen or newly mated queen that was missed.
The hive is strong and doing well.
Im sure yours will work it out. More queens better than none!
I dont mean that in a factual way just in a way to take the pressure off mysef if i miss a virgin in the mix.
I still find it hard to find my queens in a healthy hive but im getting better at it.
Good luck and thanks to those like the honey pump who have so much to share and keep us heading in the right direction.
Rgds
Adam

[Michael Bush]

It doesn't work to introduce a laying queen to a hive that has their own virgin queen.  The new queen will end up dead.

[billdean]

Interesting scenario and great question!

The bees likely will accept the mated queen. However, the VQ will seek to find her and kill her.

That the laying queen is under a cage is good.  Very good.  This buys you some time to figure it out.

On a quiet day, sit next to the hive and listen carefully.  If you hear piping ... that is one way of confirming that the risk remains;  queens priming for a battle royale.  No piping does NOT mean that there is not still a VQ present.

Virgin queens are not that hard to find, unless the hive is very populous. While their abdomen will be small and about same size as that of a bee, there is no mistaking her large thorax and long sexy legs. Though she will certainly move faster than you would expect of a queen.

There are ways and tools sort and find queens you cannot see and protect the mated queen.  The methods involve using queen excluder(s).

On a mated queen I would agree but on a virgin queen I believe she would slip right through the queen excluder. She is not bread yet therefore her abdomen is not enlarged.

[Michael Bush]

>She is not bread yet therefore her abdomen is not enlarged.

It's not her abdomen that will stop her.  It's her thorax.  It doesn't matter if she's bred or not.

[billdean]

>She is not bread yet therefore her abdomen is not enlarged.

It's not her abdomen that will stop her.  It's her thorax.  It doesn't matter if she's bred or not.

Thanks Michael??..had it backasswards. So by this a queen excluder may work?

[Michael Bush]

Yes, a queen excluder will generally stop most queens, virgin or not.

[billdean]

Thanks Michael and Pump!!

[billdean]

I guess I have another question on this?? If I was to take and do a vertical split, move the hive aside and put down a new bottom board with a hive on top of that and shake all the bees to the bottom box on the new bottom board, then put on a queen excluder, then stack the boxes back on top of this set up with the cage queen above the excluder would this not allow the virgin queen to become possibly mated, separate the virgin from the laying queen, and would not have to find the VQ,  and possibly have two working hives?

[Michael Bush]

>I guess I have another question on this?? If I was to take and do a vertical split, move the hive aside and put down a new bottom board with a hive on top of that and shake all the bees to the bottom box on the new bottom board, then put on a queen excluder, then stack the boxes back on top of this set up with the cage queen above the excluder would this not allow the virgin queen to become possibly mated, separate the virgin from the laying queen, and would not have to find the VQ,  and possibly have two working hives?

If you use a double screen board instead of an excluder, it would probably work.  But that's a lot of shaking bees etc.  I'm not convinced that it's the Virgin queen who kills the foreign queen.  It might be, but I suspect it's the workers who recognize she is not their queen.

[ed/La.]

Why not put new queen in a nuc and see what happens with the virgin queen. You are supposed to leave virgin queen alone for a few weeks. Shaking bees does not sound good.