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Author Topic: How soon can I requeen this huge defensive swarm?  (Read 1408 times)

Offline FloridaGardener

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How soon can I requeen this huge defensive swarm?
« on: April 24, 2019, 12:45:51 am »
For those of you who read many of the posts here, you may recall this recent chronicle:
 
I attempted a trap-out, but millions of tiny mean feral bees won. I escaped with my life and a catchbox containing a bar of eggs from my good queen

The evil ferals blew a mite bomb up at my good healthy hive, then all took off home (3 miles by map, but shorter as the bee flies, or else proof of their superior strength)

             Well...
15 days later (that's yesterday) they show up with Mom and 40% of the siblings, probably remembering that lovely, seasoned TBH I tried to start them in.  They land on the branch as close as possible to that same TBH, which is now hosting a few loyal frames of good bees and newly hatched virgin queen.

The feral swarm is the size of a basketball. And man, they're crabby! Even misted with sugar water so they weren't dry, and baited with LGO and some powdered sugar.... Mom did not want to live in a hive.  She kept flyin' out with her stubby little wings draggin' along her tail.  Finally, she got tired out from being misted, and stayed in the hive body. 

Her kids are soooo crabby I can't even enter the apiary enclosure without getting face-buzzed. BTW, at my good hive: I can put my face up to the entrance and they hardly notice me.

1. How soon can I requeen? 

2. Will the swarm keep building build comb even if I squish Mean McQueen as soon as I dare go in to find her?

3. After the squish, I should wait 5 days in case she already laid viable eggs in a small piece of comb, and cut away any supercedure cells, right?

4. Hopefully my virgin queen will be mated about then.  But should I wait even longer, in case she is too tender for these beastly bees?   

It would be terrific to use the huge mean bees workforce to build a lot of small-cell comb for their tiny selves, because there is a huge flow on now....20 to 200 feet from the hive. Nice sludgy lake water is only 150 ft away.
Will the swarm leave, or stop building because Mean McQueen is in a bottle of alcohol?

I plan to mite-dust every 48 hrs with powdered sugar (there's an SBB and cooking oil to make 'em stick).  I didn't ask this huge dysfunctional family to come over, but now that they're here, how can I make the best of it?

Thanks!





Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: How soon can I requeen this huge defensive swarm?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2019, 12:48:29 am »
Couldn't have landed any closer.

Offline FloridaGardener

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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: How soon can I requeen this huge defensive swarm?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2019, 06:13:46 am »
Now is the time to requeen them before they have a chance to build comb and she starts laying eggs. I do not think that you have Africanized Bees in your area but I would cage the new queen and then tomorrow test to see if they accepted her before releasing her. Africanized bees are hard to requeen with European Queens. Swarms that run out of food because they cannot find a hive to build in get very cranky. I would feed them to see if they calm down. If you have a good flow on ignore the previous two sentences.  I say this because I think you do have a flow on due to previous posts.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline iddee

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Re: How soon can I requeen this huge defensive swarm?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2019, 07:44:43 am »
I would install a mated queen immediately and remove her.Then I would leave the cork in the cage for5 or more days before releasing the new queen.As Jim said, Africans are harder to requeen than Italians. I would not disturb them during the 5 days. Then I would remove the candy end cork and let them release her if there is still candy there. Then I would wait 7 more days before checking for eggs.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: How soon can I requeen this huge defensive swarm?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2019, 05:57:55 pm »
Much thanks, to both of you experts, for sound advice and quick response. 

In chaos with no central cluster, I couldn't find McQueen again. I split the the bees. They got 2 lbs powdered sugar to busy them and hopefully shake mites.  Sadly, my VSH hive pulled pupae/mites again today....after it had looked like things calmed.

In 40 hrs, the ferals had built almost 7 medium frames of comb.  All 7 frames went in a swarm trap, closed off with a sponge, big screened vent, and lots of open nectar.   McQueen is likely in there on comb.  I had the jar of alcohol waiting. 

It's cloudy weather threatening rain, and 95% chance of rain tomorrow.  I'll try again when sunny, and take the closed hive to the other side of the yard to avoid disrupting my Good Girls and the Q-less ferals.  And bring that jar of alcohol along.

Our apiary inspector says he's never found Africans here.  But I wonder if there might be drones flying off I-10 while coming back from the almond pollination in Calif.
 

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: How soon can I requeen this huge defensive swarm?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2019, 08:56:59 pm »
FG,
Is Steven your Inspecter? If so he is a 3rd generation beekeeper. Very experienced.
There is a good chance that drones dropped off of the trucks on their way to California.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline FloridaGardener

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Re: How soon can I requeen this huge defensive swarm?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2019, 12:06:36 am »
Jim,
Our new Fla. Ag Insp is Jimmy, but it's Jeffry P. working in Districts 1 & 2 who gave the info on the negative tests for AHB locally.



The Continuing Saga:

I didn't want to risk opening the good colony in the swarm chaos, to pull a frame of open brood so as to anchor the non-queenright half of the swarm. Thought I'd do that as soon as the thunderstorm passed.

Well. Hmph.  The non-Q-rt swarm flew off by 10am this morning.  Gone home to the original bee tree, probably.  Leaving their empty dishes to clean up ;-)