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Author Topic: cost of selling nucs on honey production  (Read 4223 times)

Offline Bill Murray

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cost of selling nucs on honey production
« on: March 21, 2021, 09:28:30 pm »
So the question is. Lets take a 20 hive yard just for starters and wanted to make 45 nucs to sell, that yard was 25 miles away, I would sell with this years queens. No grafting. Meaning last years queens will stay in hive till next year  meaning I will be removing brood,bees and stores from the early spring build up, plus feeding, plus a box we will say i keep that, no frame exchange. Im wondering if I sell those nucs at 125. each if  I coldnt be making more on retail honey sales? lets not get wrapped up on price per pound, well call it 10.00 a pound. All answers would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Bill

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2021, 09:36:22 pm »
So the question is. Lets take a 20 hive yard just for starters and wanted to make 45 nucs to sell, that yard was 25 miles away, I would sell with this years queens. No grafting. Meaning last years queens will stay in hive till next year  meaning I will be removing brood,bees and stores from the early spring build up, plus feeding, plus a box we will say i keep that, no frame exchange. Im wondering if I sell those nucs at 125. each if  I coldnt be making more on retail honey sales? lets not get wrapped up on price per pound, well call it 10.00 a pound. All answers would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Bill

Nucs are going for only $125 in your area? 5 frames? Wood boxes or the portable type?
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2021, 09:58:43 pm »
portable 5 frame jester boxes, or transfers with no frame transfer. some going a little more little less. 125. low end 150. high end.. The question remains the same though at those prices stated. Heck lets make it 140. mid range. question is still the same.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 10:15:11 pm by Bill Murray »

Offline cao

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2021, 11:13:46 pm »
Around here 5+ gallons per hive is a decent amount.  And honey goes for anywhere from 7-12 dollars a pound.  5 gallon= 60 lbs honey.  10 dollars per pound - 1 dollar for packaging = 9 dollars.  So selling honey retail would yield $450/hive, less if you give a break in price for larger quantities.  Also unless selling everything from home there is cost involved in setting up at farmers markets or other outlets in sales.

Around here a nuc sells for 150-180 dollars.  Even a package goes for at least 135.  Say $175 each-10 for frames and 10 for box=155.  If you get 2 nucs from each hive=$310.  If you do frame exchange and put the nuc in their box then it would be $350.  More if you can get more than 2 nucs from a hive.


Both would require different amounts of time which is not factored in.  There are advantages in either option.  If you like interacting with lots of people then the retail honey sales would be for you.  If you are a homebody like myself then the nuc sales may be more appealing. 




Offline TheHoneyPump

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cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2021, 11:42:05 pm »
Pound for pound :  bees to honey....
     Honey is one quarter the money using 4 times more equipment and doing 4 times more work.
IMHO
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2021, 11:51:08 pm »
Why not both, if you had 20 let 10 be honey and split 10, if you time it right you could make 2 splits off each hive turn 10 into 30 and sell your 20 and still have 10 making honey.
I did came out of winter with 14. Kept 6 production. Split the rest turned 8 to 16. After my overwintered queens built back up in the 8 2 frame splits I made into strong 5 frame I split them 4 of them 1more time, and put the other 4 in 10 frame. My goal is to only sell 5 this year spring, and build up my apiary, I got 26 right now and caught 2 swarms, so  I?m at 28. And come fall after summer solstice I?ll split and go in to winter hopefully with 25 production and 10 nucs to start again next year, and double my production honey and double my nuc sale.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2021, 11:55:19 pm »
Pound for pound :  bees to honey....
     Honey is one quarter the money using 4 times more equipment and doing 4 times more work.
IMHO
I enjoy the honey, starting to love building bees up. Enjoy the building seeing it all take shape. Gonna have to start learning how to graft. Ots has done me well, it has taught me Patients.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2021, 12:04:53 am »
Sure you can do both. There are many that do. Have fun. 😊
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2021, 03:24:53 pm »
Well the reason I asked the question was because I cut out 38 nucs this year for me personally. A gentleman down the road from me purchased 5 nucs for 125. each, someone else i know is selling for 145. When I figured the cost to do this labor and all I came to approximately 142. per nuc then you have to add profit. But, then I started thinking about what I was taking from those hives Im trying to build to produce honey, and tried to figure the setback to those hives, thats where I drew a blank. Granted I had to drive to the yard anyway, but if I was selling nucs I think that has to be added in. IDK? I was just trying to do some constructive thinking.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2021, 03:40:41 pm »
Well the reason I asked the question was because I cut out 38 nucs this year for me personally. A gentleman down the road from me purchased 5 nucs for 125. each, someone else i know is selling for 145. When I figured the cost to do this labor and all I came to approximately 142. per nuc then you have to add profit. But, then I started thinking about what I was taking from those hives Im trying to build to produce honey, and tried to figure the setback to those hives, thats where I drew a blank. Granted I had to drive to the yard anyway, but if I was selling nucs I think that has to be added in. IDK? I was just trying to do some constructive thinking.

You are on the ball with your bees!  When I first became a little more than interested I hit youtube and found all type of beekeepers who most gladly shared their thinking and strategies. Some like Joe May, David at Barnyard bees, and Don Kuchenmeister went the bee sales route. The former first started with honey but I think he realized after the hard backbreaking work of honey producing commercially, he was better off selling bees. (I could be wrong, but I don't think the hive lifts were quite yet perfected back in his early days).At least that is what I gathered from watching his videos. Others like Bob Binnie do it all. I mean everything, so he leaves no stone unturned including having his own honey bottling factory, bee yards, equipment manufacturing, supply company etc.
The biggest thing in my opinion for we hobbyist, short of being a commercial beekeeper, is having fun. If you are having fun and want to sell nucs go for it. Or do both? I enjoy folks like you who are always thinking of different ideas and strategies.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2021, 03:46:12 pm »
I think at 125 your under Valuing your self. I am attempting to use all bee money for bee supplies and now with the increasing cost of lumber, I for see the boxes and supplies increasing for my 2022 build up. I am  considering Getting them now. Sounds like you got a nice thing going in your yards. North Florida?

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2021, 03:51:00 pm »
Well the reason I asked the question was because I cut out 38 nucs this year for me personally. A gentleman down the road from me purchased 5 nucs for 125. each, someone else i know is selling for 145. When I figured the cost to do this labor and all I came to approximately 142. per nuc then you have to add profit. But, then I started thinking about what I was taking from those hives Im trying to build to produce honey, and tried to figure the setback to those hives, thats where I drew a blank. Granted I had to drive to the yard anyway, but if I was selling nucs I think that has to be added in. IDK? I was just trying to do some constructive thinking.
I wouldn?t think pricing your nuc to supply your honey loss isn?t a bad thing. I think that?s why I am flipping my yards to production and nuc provider to see which one produces better. I don?t move my bees so they are on different location on 13 acres.

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2021, 05:43:29 pm »
jtcmedic, I didnt sell for 125. he purchased those from someone else. Guess i wasnt clear there.Th And that was kind of a thought also, to make 1 yard just for nucs and see where it all went, then see if it was more lucrative than the honey production. Even as a hobbyist if you were selling bees,honey,wax, pollen, etc. I think a person would have to pay themselves for time spent in the yard, extracting, drying,etc. on top of bee cost.If not, even though your having fun doing what you love your not doing yourself justice. Just my personal opinion there.

Offline Troutdog

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2021, 10:07:52 am »
35 queen
5f @3.50 17.50
3 lbs bees 120
1 frame honey @ 5$lb 5lb on frame 25
Total

Might be losing money@125

Northeast pricing

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Offline Acebird

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2021, 08:53:16 am »
I just bought a quart of honey for 15 and she sells 3 for 40.  It is raw and she claims she has 700 hives and doesn't spin it.  I thought the honey was local but it is from Maine.  It is very good honey.  When you think of how much work honey and bees are why would you go into business selling either unless you weren't producing the product?
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2021, 11:13:49 am »
Quote
35 queen
5f @3.50 17.50
3 lbs bees 120
1 frame honey @ 5$lb 5lb on frame 25
Total

Might be losing money@125

Northeast pricing
Thats kinda where I was going with this. When I started figuring the cost of brood, resource frames. Plus the resources/nectar for the bees to redraw the new frames. then the setback on brood /bee production for the upcoming nectar flow. Plus time. I was around the 200. mark. Actually a little over.

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2021, 01:12:45 pm »
I just bought a quart of honey for 15 and she sells 3 for 40.  It is raw and she claims she has 700 hives and doesn't spin it.  I thought the honey was local but it is from Maine.  It is very good honey.  When you think of how much work honey and bees are why would you go into business selling either unless you weren't producing the product?
Because in Florida with the farmers market there are a lot of honey resellers. Alot

Offline jtcmedic

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2021, 01:14:52 pm »
Quote
35 queen
5f @3.50 17.50
3 lbs bees 120
1 frame honey @ 5$lb 5lb on frame 25
Total

Might be losing money@125

Northeast pricing
Thats kinda where I was going with this. When I started figuring the cost of brood, resource frames. Plus the resources/nectar for the bees to redraw the new frames. then the setback on brood /bee production for the upcoming nectar flow. Plus time. I was around the 200. mark. Actually a little over.
I have mine priced at 180.00 that?s the don?t split mine.

Offline yes2matt

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2021, 04:52:54 pm »
Friend if the highest price you've seen is 145, price yours at 165. Yours is a premium product.

Always keeping in mind of course that a premium product commends premium service. However often premium service involves sales of miscellaneous.

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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2021, 01:07:10 am »
How to properly price a stuffed 4F or basic 5F nucleus colony for sale.

The Price of the Nuc = A + B + C + D + E + F
A  the wholesale price of a 3 lb (1.5kg) package of bees + 20% to 40% for the extra bees already on order (brood)
B  retail price of 5 brand new foundation frames
C  wholesale price of 18 lbs of honey
D  wholesale price of 2lbs of pollen
E  retail price of the nuc box + 15% for your handling and logistics
F  price of 1 hour of labor for all the time spent grafting, inspecting, boosting, and growing the nuc
G  ... cost of treatments, add or leave out as free

Don't guess. Guessing is not how you do business. Do the math. If you cannot sell at whatever that number works out for you then you are either loosing money or it is really not worth your while.


Hope that helps!
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline yes2matt

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2021, 07:25:23 am »
THP it's good math. Where are you getting 18lbs of honey and 2 lbs of pollen? My nucs have honey and pollen but not that much??

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Offline jtcmedic

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2021, 07:56:01 am »
How to properly price a stuffed 4F or basic 5F nucleus colony for sale.

The Price of the Nuc = A + B + C + D + E + F
A  the wholesale price of a 3 lb (1.5kg) package of bees + 20% to 40% for the extra bees already on order (brood)
B  retail price of 5 brand new foundation frames
C  wholesale price of 18 lbs of honey
D  wholesale price of 2lbs of pollen
E  retail price of the nuc box + 15% for your handling and logistics
F  price of 1 hour of labor for all the time spent grafting, inspecting, boosting, and growing the nuc
G  ... cost of treatments, add or leave out as free

Don't guess. Guessing is not how you do business. Do the math. If you cannot sell at whatever that number works out for you then you are either loosing money or it is really not worth your while.


Hope that helps!
Thanks honey pump that?s a great breakdown

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2021, 07:59:11 am »
We split in early Spring for swarm control.
We split our strong hives, about 25-30% of them have the brood halved. The rest may only lose 1 or 2 frames of brood.
We have a greater honey loss from swarming, losing bees in spring is losing honey. Recovery from swarming takes months.
Splitting is done in mid September for us down here.
We make more honey by splitting and the sale of nucs is a bonus. Also the nucs restore our own supply for hive maintainence.
Nucs sell for $180 in a portable box or put into the purchasers hive.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2021, 10:40:20 am »
THP it's good math. Where are you getting 18lbs of honey and 2 lbs of pollen? My nucs have honey and pollen but not that much??

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The 18-2 is the guestimate of the bees cost to waxout new foundation and to stock those frames with resources of honey, pollen, brood. It is your lost revenue of those resources going with the nuc sale rather than you extracting, packaging, and marketing it. 1 full deep frame of honey can be close to 10 lbs.
A properly made nuc of 4 to 5 frames (for sale) should easily weight 15-20 lbs.  (imho)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 10:54:24 am by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline Brian MCquilkin

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2021, 01:06:12 pm »
HP great math: The other thing I pay attention to is what the market is accepting. I'm not going to sell less than the beek down the road.
After doing the math and looking at the local market I will set my price.  So if my math comes out at $165 for a nuc and the locals are selling $185 I will set my price at $185 or a little more, Just don't want to undercut or leave money on the table.
Despite my efforts the bees are doing great

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2021, 04:10:18 pm »
The issue I occasionally encounter here is folks coming and expecting a nuc to cost same or less than a package. I promptly tell them to go pound sand (politely most of the time), but also tell them the door is always open and that they are welcome to come back for a proper startup colony after their bees are dead.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2021, 02:12:11 am »
How to properly price a stuffed 4F or basic 5F nucleus colony for sale.

The Price of the Nuc = A + B + C + D + E + F
A  the wholesale price of a 3 lb (1.5kg) package of bees + 20% to 40% for the extra bees already on order (brood)
B  retail price of 5 brand new foundation frames
C  wholesale price of 18 lbs of honey
D  wholesale price of 2lbs of pollen
E  retail price of the nuc box + 15% for your handling and logistics
F  price of 1 hour of labor for all the time spent grafting, inspecting, boosting, and growing the nuc
G  ... cost of treatments, add or leave out as free

Don't guess. Guessing is not how you do business. Do the math. If you cannot sell at whatever that number works out for you then you are either loosing money or it is really not worth your while.


Hope that helps!

Helps Tremendously!
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2021, 10:04:37 pm »
Thanks HP. I know Ive been gone for a while but been busy. That was my point exactly you explained it to a T.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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cost of selling nucs on honey production
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2021, 01:25:34 am »
The second part of the equation is:  how much total saleable honey (lbs) will a hive make in your area and at what price can the honey be sold. 
Revenue is Lbs per hive per year X $ per lb minus expenses to harvest it, extract it, bottle it, and market it.
The better business model is decided by whether the nuc makes more (Net) money per hive or if the honey does. 
I make huge per hive honey crops (relatively). Hence, -The Honey Pump-   But it is a lot of work to go get it. I can make more per hive net money with much less work selling nucs, provided the demand is there. When conditions are right I can pull 3 to 6 nucs per hive. Some years it is more nucs. Other years it is more honey. 
As sadisric as it sounds, I really do like years when there are high colony losses. In such times I am happy to bee the go-to guy restocking the local apiaries losses with my nucs. That makes the decision easier;  whether I am laid back and cashing in on  nucs or getting a good full body workout making honey that season.
This year 2021, 2020/2021 the local honey market price has been low.  Winter colony losses were remarkably high around the region. I faired well over winter. As a result this has been a high nuc demand year. Net honey will be down as I had decimated a good portion of my colonies for nucs and now rebuild the stock numbers over the summer.  But my pockets are flush with raw cash from nuc sales that easily outweighed my projections for a 2021 honey crop.
In the end I am saying some years nucs make you more money other years honey is the backstop and can make the more money.  But hands down year to year, if you have the demand go produce nucs.  It is a lot less work.  But do not sell yourself short. Know the value of your costs and effort to make them. Know what you have spent into them and ensure the price you get is well worth your while.

Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 02:07:27 am by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

 

anything