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Author Topic: Big Lies  (Read 87817 times)

Online gww

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #960 on: June 24, 2022, 10:40:40 pm »
Kathy
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no broken laws.
Maybe you are right though a federal judge that released Eastman's records said in the ruling that trump and Eastman more then likely broke several laws.  They just raided Clark's home which had to have a judge rule to allow it.  Rudy has lost his law license so far.  I guess time will tell.  I can't really see how nothing will happen but I did watch the hearings. 
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #961 on: June 25, 2022, 08:47:55 am »

So far I see differences of opinion and no broken laws.
Because you refuse to open your eyes to the facts that are in front of you.  I saw this in action with my daughter when I visited her in Reno.  She was watching ABC (why IDK) and as soon as testimony of a close trump follower came on she turned the channel.  Made me laugh.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #962 on: June 26, 2022, 12:21:05 am »
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Maybe you are right though a federal judge that released Eastman's records said in the ruling that trump and Eastman more then likely broke several laws.  They just raided Clark's home which had to have a judge rule to allow it.  Rudy has lost his law license so far.  I guess time will tell.  I can't really see how nothing will happen but I did watch the hearings.

If they have the evidence, they should charge him.  so far, everything that has been alleged against Trump turned out to be wrong and he was right.  Judges have allowed all kinds of things and some of those things were allowed because the FBI  lied to them. 

This is about keeping Trump from running again.  That's it.  They don't care about anything other than that.  He is not approved and he made Lizzy mad by dissing her daddy. 
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #963 on: June 26, 2022, 12:21:54 am »
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Because you refuse to open your eyes to the facts that are in front of you.

Have honest hearings and you have my attention.  Have a one sided political show and it's not worth my time. 
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Online gww

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #964 on: June 26, 2022, 01:10:32 am »
kathy
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If they have the evidence, they should charge him.
They may charge him and they may not just because of politics more then crime committed.  I do remember however how you took the position that the jan 6 riot was not a riot because they were only charging trespass though now we see they are charging insurrection and do already have at least one guilty plea.  I do have thoughts on this and that is with money people that commit crimes have a better defense and some times the guilty do get away with stuff and also the justice can be slow.  It took nine years to convict serial killer Charles Ng.  Normal divorces probably average two years to complete. 
Time will tell. 

From what I seem to see, it would be an injustice if they did not charge him but I did watch what his aides and appointed lawyers testified happened.  It can not be that he should be free to try ruin peoples lives and put them at risk at harm for his selfish hold against the will of the voters and do so with bad intent and no proof.  Who gets to pick that it is ok for certain person to hurt other people with out merit especially since said certain person was more then willing to push punishment for others.  He was more then willing to sick supporters on others many time by name and with out proof and he should have to take his punishment. 
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gww

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #965 on: June 26, 2022, 11:33:13 am »
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They may charge him and they may not just because of politics more then crime committed.  I do remember however how you took the position that the jan 6 riot was not a riot because they were only charging trespass though now we see they are charging insurrection and do already have at least one guilty plea.  I do have thoughts on this and that is with money people that commit crimes have a better defense and some times the guilty do get away with stuff and also the justice can be slow.  It took nine years to convict serial killer Charles Ng.  Normal divorces probably average two years to complete.
Time will tell.

No I d id not.  I took the position that the Jan 6th riot was a riot, not an insurrection.  I also took the position that people should not be locked in jail with no bail and for a year (at that time) for a misdemeanor.  No one has been charged for "insurrection". The worst charges are seditious conspiracy against some of the Oath Keepers. 

I agree that court cases can take a long time.  Even with the most serious crimes people are rarely kept in jail until trial unless there is good case to think they will take off, or commit more crimes.  They are rarely jailed for more than 24 hours for a misdemeanor charge.  Some of these people sat in jail for months with no charges against them.  The FBI has been going around the country rounding people up just because they were in the capitol building. 

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From what I seem to see, it would be an injustice if they did not charge him but I did watch what his aides and appointed lawyers testified happened.

What law do you think was broken?

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He was more then willing to sick supporters on others many time by name and with out proof and he should have to take his punishment.

Examples?  And laws broken.

There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Online gww

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #966 on: June 26, 2022, 01:36:19 pm »
Kathy
I am not a lawyer but could come to the conclusion that insurrection is a ten year sentence and sedition is a 20 year sentence and both can be true in concert with each other.  However, I take your point on actual fact that it was sedition conspiracy that was charged and as such, your post is more precise then mine.

One example was trump claiming fraud against specific poll workers with no proof or thought of impact against poll workers cause it would gain him.  When the fbi did the same by putting out a name as the Boston marathon bomber, it was proved to be wrong by a large settlement to the defamed person.   There are enough people that saw in real time that I do not feel compelled to make a list cause most already know the bullying tactics and probably think it is just as fair when his flaws are addressed if it is done with truer facts then met his standard which he used against others.

Hopefully a jury of his peers will get a chance to decide on his attempted theft and grift, including grift from his own supporters.
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gww

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #967 on: June 26, 2022, 09:50:04 pm »
I think you are thinking of the Atlanta bomber.  Richard Jewell was named but was not guilty. 

If people are guilty of breaking some law, then by all means prosecute them.  Do not imprison people and leave them there as a political statement. If murderers and rapists are entitled to post bail, then certainly trespassers should be able to do the same, don't you think?

My only argument with the entire process is that it is not equally applied.  Dozens of deaths from the BLM and ANTIFA riots.  Many millions of dollars in damage.  Police attacked.  Federal buildings were attacked.  Most of the cases dropped.  Many not investigated at all. 

As for Trump, if there is a crime they should charge him.  I said the same during both impeachments.  This is not about crime.  This is about politics.  Those not ordained by the powers that be, are not allowed to become president.  If somehow that happens because the pesky people outvoted the ordained, then it certainly can't be allowed to happen again.

Trumps personality is not my type, but the fact that he scared the intel agencies so badly that they knowingly participated in promoting lies for years ought to make us all wonder what they don't want to be exposed.
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Online gww

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #968 on: June 26, 2022, 10:00:19 pm »
Kathy
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I think you are thinking of the Atlanta bomber.  Richard Jewell was named but was not guilty.
Again you are correct.  I am getting worse and worse but always was more of an over view guy. 
Cheers
gww

Ps  I can't lie.  It was trump that scared me in his ability to rule and his over all disregard for any other authority.

I realize justice is not always perfect or I would not be the only one getting a speeding ticket when traffic as a whole is moving faster then the posted speed.  However, to me, seeing the small guys getting nailed and the big guys that orchestrate getting a pass is also just too hard to swallow.  I agree with the crack guy that gets 30 years compared to the coke guy only getting three when it is a very similar crime as being a wrong thing.  There are all kinds of stuff like that.  Still, trump was bad and should not get a pass.  Doesn't mean my view will win but it would be justice and having things to throw up to in an otherism fashion is just a race to the bottom where no bad is addressed.  We could discuss what the proper crime should be for burning down a building but that would be a different discussion which in no way would absolve trump from doing right or wrong.  He still had his choice and the investigation is showing what that choice was and the mechanic he used to exercise that choice.  Only time will tell if there is justice.
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gww
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 10:21:29 pm by gww »

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #969 on: June 26, 2022, 11:16:04 pm »
but there has to be a crime, not just a "I don't like what the guy said".

Go back to the beginning.  Before he was sworn in, they were talking impeachment.  Based on what?  What if the FBI had not pushed the Russia collusion lie?  What if the intel people had not lied, many under oath, with no consequences.  What if they had not lied about Hunter and the Russia misinformation thing?    Why is the FBI raiding press and investigative organizations to keep Bidens daughters diary away from everyone?  How is that a federal issue?  Why did the secret service show up to try and take Hunters gun application from the dealer?  What could be the reason other than to cover up a felony? 
Everything was and is based on lies from various intel agencies and people.

I am not trying to convince you to like Trump.  I'd have to convince myself first  :cheesy:.  I just want you and others to think things through from beginning to end.  It all stinks.  It was stinky from the start.  We may never know the entire story, but we sure are getting enough pieces to understand that what we were told was a lie.  If that was a lie, why trust what we are told now by the same actors? 
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Online gww

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #970 on: June 27, 2022, 12:21:31 am »
But it was not the same actors that told trump the election was not stolen.  It was white house lawyer and his appointed intel and his appointed agency heads and advisors and the supreme court and yet he raised a quarter billion from his supporters on the lie to a fund that did not even exist plus many other actions to overturn real voters votes. 

You guys bring up hunter and blk and antifa.  Heck michael as well as senator gates from day one said it was antifa that attacked the capital when everyone could see who did it and they all had internet feeds and were bragging in real time. The things in this second paragraph have little to do with the above.

It has nothing to do with like or dislike but more to do with did he break the law.  I have disliked many that I do not think should be in jail due to just dislike.  I have liked some who did end up in jail and that is where I think they really should be.  I liked one guy but still believe he should not have killed somebody to steal their money (different story).

Funny thing about impeachment.  What did trump or any president think?  Did he think I need to try and not give them something to hang their hat on?  That is not what he did, the other side wanted to impeach the guy in on all the presidents and trump was dumb enough to provide them fodder to chew on.  Your side is just dyeing to impeach biden and making such threats.  So what?  Nature of the beast.  Checks and balances.

If trump gets tried, it will have been his actions that caused it.  Lies could not make him do illegal stuff. 
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #971 on: June 27, 2022, 08:51:52 am »
Based on what?
He comes from a gangster family, is a con man in every sense of the word, has no regard for the rule of law, or the constitution, conducts himself as a narcissist who is above the law, was truly not fit for the presidency and should have been removed but congress did not do their job.  The republican party has given up their long standing principals for an once of power.  Time will bit them in the butt.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #972 on: June 27, 2022, 11:31:35 am »
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But it was not the same actors that told trump the election was not stolen.  It was white house lawyer and his appointed intel and his appointed agency heads and advisors and the supreme court and yet he raised a quarter billion from his supporters on the lie to a fund that did not even exist plus many other actions to overturn real voters votes.

So if a law was broken, charge him.  now I sound like a broken record   :grin:  I am sure plenty of people told Hillary she lost but she spent 4 years talking about how her election was stolen.

You guys bring up hunter and blk and antifa.  Heck michael as well as senator gates from day one said it was antifa that attacked the capital when everyone could see who did it and they all had internet feeds and were bragging in real time. The things in this second paragraph have little to do with the above.

Perhaps, but there were agitators in the crowd.  We have that on tape too.  For some reason, they were not rounded up with the others, and that's a question that an honest investigation would look into.  why were some people chased down for things like trespassing, while those in the crowd inciting violence were not. 

It has nothing to do with like or dislike but more to do with did he break the law.  I have disliked many that I do not think should be in jail due to just dislike.  I have liked some who did end up in jail and that is where I think they really should be.  I liked one guy but still believe he should not have killed somebody to steal their money (different story).

Charge him if he broke the law.

Funny thing about impeachment.  What did trump or any president think?  Did he think I need to try and not give them something to hang their hat on?  That is not what he did, the other side wanted to impeach the guy in on all the presidents and trump was dumb enough to provide them fodder to chew on.  Your side is just dyeing to impeach biden and making such threats.  So what?  Nature of the beast.  Checks and balances.

Impeachment is not a check and balance.  It is a remedy for high crimes and misdemeanors.  In neither case did they have anything that met the bar of high crimes and misdemeanors.  One was based on a lie that was supported and enhanced by the FBI and the other not only didn't come close to impeachable but turned out to be right.  Biden and son were involved in Ukraine and very possibly in a criminal way.  Biden did interfere in their government for the benefit of his son...and himself.
I don't think they'll impeach him.  He's doing that to himself already.  I do hope that they will investigate the entire family because it is the poster family for corruption.
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #973 on: June 27, 2022, 11:33:25 am »
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He comes from a gangster family, is a con man in every sense of the word, has no regard for the rule of law, or the constitution, conducts himself as a narcissist who is above the law, was truly not fit for the presidency and should have been removed but congress did not do their job.  The republican party has given up their long standing principals for an once of power.  Time will bit them in the butt.

You know that when you make declarative statements I am going to ask you for examples.

Kennedy came for a gangster family.  Should he have been held accountable for his fathers wrongdoing?

As for the rest, I'd be pleased to read you supporting comments.
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Online gww

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #974 on: June 27, 2022, 12:01:24 pm »
Kathy
Doubt we agree in our out look of subject matter but I do appreciate your paying attention to things we both lived through in the probably similar years of our life and your willingness to discuss.  I am sure I am a bit lazy on that discussion as it is a bit of work but some fun also.
Cheers
gww

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #975 on: June 27, 2022, 02:24:06 pm »
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Doubt we agree in our out look of subject matter but I do appreciate your paying attention to things we both lived through in the probably similar years of our life and your willingness to discuss.

Lol.  The good thing about having some age on us  :cheesy:
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Offline Acebird

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #976 on: June 28, 2022, 08:32:12 am »
In neither case did they have anything that met the bar of high crimes and misdemeanors.
In Trump's case the bar of high crimes and misdemeanors was decided by an election instead of the supreme court which in now politically motivated.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #977 on: June 28, 2022, 08:43:42 am »
You know that when you make declarative statements I am going to ask you for examples.

There are so many laid out for you, some of which has been videoed but you refuse to watch the examples and the testimony so why would I waste hours of my life at such an old age proving something you will not accept?  The world over rejoiced when Trump lost.  Their only hesitation is the 38% of Americans that are still delusional.
There is a very good fictional program that I recommend  for you and Phil to watch "Handmaids Tail".  It is written as fictional but turns out very real for current events.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #978 on: June 28, 2022, 11:54:27 am »
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The world over rejoiced when Trump lost.
  some might have rejoiced.  Wonder if they are rejoicing now?  I have been overseas during a couple of our primary and federal elections.  Rarely does our reporting about what others think, match what I have heard on the ground. 

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There are so many laid out for you, some of which has been videoed but you refuse to watch the examples and the testimony so why would I waste hours of my life at such an old age proving something you will not accept?
I asked for examples.  Again you refuse to supply them.  Selectively presented video does not do it, although again, where is the crime to lay on Trump? 
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman