Welcome, Guest
Login or Register
Home
« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: What is this?  (Read 2099 times)

Offline Aroc

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 294
  • Gender: Male
What is this?
« on: May 13, 2019, 06:57:46 pm »
Went over to a friends place yesterday.  He showed me this frame.  Isolated to this frame.  No odor.  Cold?  Queen is in their but pretty small cluster.  He said it doesn?t look like she is laying.

Logged
You are what you think.

Offline iddee

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10855
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2019, 08:21:07 pm »
Picture color isn't great. Are the larva white or yellow?
Logged
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Aroc

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 294
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2019, 08:34:01 pm »
Quote from: iddee on May 13, 2019, 08:21:07 pm
Picture color isn't great. Are the larva white or yellow?

Black and grey.
Logged
You are what you think.

Offline Donovan J

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 452
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2019, 09:20:32 pm »
Im pretty sure that this is European foulbrood. Talk to a beekeeper in your area to check it out and give it a official diagnosis.
Logged
3rd year of beekeeping and I still have lots to learn

Offline iddee

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10855
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2019, 06:00:07 am »
The larva around the bad spot is either pearly white or tinted yellow. If yellow, then European Foul Brood.
Logged
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13546
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2019, 06:11:33 am »
It can also bee Snot Brood. Stick a toothpick in it, twirl it around and pull it out. If it makes a string, it is either EFB or AFB. If it stretches 2 cells, EFB. If there is no string effect then it is Snot Brood.
Jim Altmiller
Logged
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Aroc

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 294
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2019, 11:04:44 am »
Quote from: sawdstmakr on May 14, 2019, 06:11:33 am
It can also bee Snot Brood. Stick a toothpick in it, twirl it around and pull it out. If it makes a string, it is either EFB or AFB. If it stretches 2 cells, EFB. If there is no string effect then it is Snot Brood.
Jim Altmiller

It?s not stringy.  Never heard of snot brood
Logged
You are what you think.

Offline TheHoneyPump

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1389
  • Work Hard. Play Harder.
Re: What is this?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2019, 02:08:10 pm »
Quote from: Aroc on May 13, 2019, 06:57:46 pm
Went over to a friends place yesterday.  He showed me this frame.  Isolated to this frame.  No odor.  Cold?  Queen is in their but pretty small cluster.  He said it doesn?t look like she is laying.

Your profile indicates MT.  Chances are your area also has day/night temperature swings.  Combine that with a small cluster.  What you are looking at is a very common (spring) cold weather stress condition for northern beekeepers which results in --> Chalk Brood.  I am going with this mostly off of your description and your location - as the picture is not great.  Confirmation evidence will be a better picture and what you see inside the hive on the bottom board - after you have fixed the underlying condition and they get to work cleaning it up.

The fix is to reduce the hive space so they can properly thermoregulate through the overnight temperature swings. Remove boxes and get them down to where the amount of bees are covering 90% of the frames in the space given.  Perhaps as far as moving them into a smaller box such as a nuc.  Once you have them into a space that they can maintain, they will bounce back fairly quickly.  Watch their brood mass condition as they recover, as they will expand quickly and be needing a bit more space back in 3 weeks.  For northern beekeeping in spring swings - It is a fine balance between keeping them tight but having space to expand to prevent swarming impulse.  Soon as you see bits of chalk brood, you know there is too much space.

She is laying.  I can see plenty of eggs in the picture. She is doing what she can but cannot expand the nest because the bees cannot maintain the brood and the space they have.  The fix is to reduce the space or give them an ample boost of bees to add enough workforce for the space they are in.  Do not give them more brood to look after. Do not give a brood frame as their boost. Give bees only. Also, do not replace the queen. Fix the space2bees thermoregulation issue.

Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 02:31:02 pm by TheHoneyPump »
Logged
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline van from Arkansas

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1900
  • Gender: Male
  • Van from Arkansas.
Re: What is this?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2019, 05:30:38 pm »
HP: good point about Chalkbrood and cold weather.

However the chalkbrood I have look was never black.  Some yellowish white that appear as a piece of chalk in the cell.  Now I am no expert on Chalkbrood so I am asking is black common?

Aroc, we need to know larva age.  That can bee a distinguishing characteristic between FB,,, A or B.  Jim?s test mentioned is another way to distinguish between A or B.  Not saying it is FB nor Chalkbrood.  I can?t tell from pic.

Plenty of eggs on left side of pic. 
Logged
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline iddee

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10855
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2019, 05:48:30 pm »
AFB attacks capped brood, not open larva.
EFB attacks larva and turns it yellow.
Chalk brood turns larva hard like chalk, but is still white.
Logged
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline TheHoneyPump

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1389
  • Work Hard. Play Harder.
Re: What is this?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2019, 06:44:33 pm »
Chalk brood <-> stone brood, are white only at the start. If you look only for white, you will be mis-diagnosing it.  Is not white once it has run its course. It starts out white in the early stages as it is a white larvae growing fungus fuzz on it. As the fungus progresses on the larvae it turns grey/black then it dies off and dries into a black/grey pill shaped plug. You will see them on the bottom board when the bees nest gets strong enough and they start cleaning up and tossing them down. You will see them tossed out the front door when it gets warm enough for major house cleaning.  It is a typical spring temperature swing cold stress problem.

Chalk brood and stone brood are both fungal infection.  Technically they are not exactly the same.  However, in terms of the effect on the beehive, the similar appearance, and same cause / treatment; for ease I just call them the same thing, chalk brood.

Not saying CB/SB is what is in the picture.  Just mentioning that is most probable possibility given the circumstances.

Needs another inspection, better pictures, and observations.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 07:04:23 pm by TheHoneyPump »
Logged
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline iddee

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 10855
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2019, 08:00:52 pm »
Maybe in the north, but down here we pick the white mummies off the bottom board. Warmer climate may help them remove them sooner.
Logged
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Aroc

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 294
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2019, 10:31:01 pm »
Thanks for the info.  Still not sure what it is.  I?ll share this info with Mike.  Might just tell him I?ll give him some brood and nurse bees to build things up.  I think he did bring the space down to a single deep.
Logged
You are what you think.

Offline beesnweeds

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 246
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is this?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2019, 11:38:52 pm »
It looks like chilled brood to me.
Logged
Everyone loves a worker.... until its laying.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12697
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: What is this?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2019, 02:36:12 am »
Odds are HP nailed it. Just to be safe, why not do a cheap and reassuring Holst Milk Test?
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
 

anything