rookie questions - package installation April 20th on Long Island in NY

[incognito]

Let me first apologize for not more thoroughly searching for the advice I am looking for. These cannot be new questions.

Background:

2 packages were installed yesterday afternoon. Hives are 10 feet apart. New heavy wax plastic foundation sprayed with syrup. Queens still in cages with candy inserted into cage openings.
Hive 1 had grass loosely stuffed in the smaller opening of the entrance reducer. Hive 2 had no reducer at all.
Hive 1 has an oblong opening in the inner cover, top feeding jar does not completely cover the opening. Hive 2 has a round opening entirely covered by the jar.

Environment:
High 50's daytime temperatures.
Trees blooming out - seasonal allergies beginning (my low tech pollen measuring device).

Early afternoon visit revealed orientation flights in front of hive 2 and minimal activity in front of hive 1. The bees had pushed the grass almost completely out of the smaller entrance reducer opening. I changed the reducer to the larger opening and did not replace the grass. Orientation flights began shortly thereafter.
Question: should I be discouraging flights so the bees focus on building comb. There can't be much space to store nectar or pollen at this time.

Ventilation:
I raised the telescopic cover on hive one by putting nickels on top of the top hive body. Should I keep them there?
Should I cover the remainder of the oblong hole?
What position should the entrance reducers be in?

I tilted the outside cover of hive 1 up enough to see some bees on the top of the inner cover where I spilled some syrup yesterday. I did not look for a queen in the pile assuming she was still caged. I saw one or two bees on the inside of the top cover. No indication of comb being built in the top hive box. The feeding jar was still full  - no significant leaking going on. Hive 2 has an observation window revealing no bees in the top body. Feeding jar also looking good. Do I let the bees stay in the top body of hive 1 now and when I go back in a few days to see if the queen has been released?


Tom

[herbhome]

(quote)  Question: should I be discouraging flights so the bees focus on building comb. There can't be much space to store nectar or pollen at this time.

Orientation is normal and their nature. They know they need to draw comb and will get to it right away. Just keep feeding light syrup to feed those little wax glands. 

[BeeMaster2]

For now use the smallest opening.
Not sure how you would discourage the bees from fly. Bees have been making honey for about 100 million years. You just need to give them a home and let them do their thing.
Jim Altmiller

[ed/La.]

It would be nice if you had some drawn comb. Can you get a few frames from bee friend or club member?  Queen will have nowhere to lay. A lot of work for a package. Nice to give them a jump start. A frame of brood would be best.

[incognito]

For now use the smallest opening.
Not sure how you would discourage the bees from fly. Bees have been making honey for about 100 million years. You just need to give them a home and let them do their thing.
Jim Altmiller

Will do.
My thought was that using the smallest opening would discourage flight by slowing down their egress and ingress to the hive.
But since they pushed out the little bit of grass I put in the small opening, I took the hint that they wanted to get out. That is why I switched to the larger of the two openings in the entrance reducer.

[ed/La.]

The entrance reducer is to make it easier for them to protect hive. Easier to keep robber bees and wasp out. A few bees can protect a small entrance. Not to keep them in. They need to come and go as they want.

[incognito]

Day 4 -
Bees are bringing pollen back to hive 2 (8 frame) but way less, almost none, to hive 1 (10 frame) I had to lightly smoke the oval opening in the inner cover when swapping syrup jars in hive 1. Hive 2 has no bees in the top hive body. Hive 1 has a cupful of bees in the top hive body along with three rather large beetles. I did not remove the inner cover in either hive.

Does the difference mean anything?

I assume the bees in hive 2 feel that they have enough place to store the pollen but not so in the bigger hive 1. Both started with waxed plastic foundation.

I may look for the queen in hive 1 tomorrow and hive 2 this weekend.

[Michael Bush]

I would put them in one box, not two.

http://bushfarms.com/beespackages.htm

[incognito]

I would put them in one box, not two.

http://bushfarms.com/beespackages.htm

Are you saying to stack the two colonies?  I installed 2 packages, one package in each of two hives.

[Michael Bush]

> Do I let the bees stay in the top body of hive 1 now and when I go back in a few days to see if the queen has been released?

I assumed there were two hive bodies at least on hive 1 and maybe on both.  Maybe I misunderstood?  I'm saying I would install each package in only one box per package and not two per package.

[incognito]

The top boxes are sitting on the inner covers and are intended to only have the syrup jars in them.

Hive 1 has an oblong opening in the inner cover, longer than the round jar top. I read in your link that I should cover that extra opening to the brood chamber with duct tape. I intend to cover it up sometime later this week - when I check to see if the queen has been released from her cage.

Since the relatively few bees in the top box of hive 1 are not building comb, I was not rushing to take the inner cover off and shake them down. I was limiting my intrusions taking off the top cover only to keep the syrup jars from running dry. I did bump the top hive body on the ground to relocate any bees that were hanging out on the inside walls.

[Michael Bush]

>The top boxes are sitting on the inner covers and are intended to only have the syrup jars in them.

Then you need to COMPLETELY exclude the bees from that box.  If they are currently in that box, shake them down into the box below.
 Otherwise they will fill it with comb.  Bees start at the top and work down.  They are not attracted to foundation and will build their own comb without foundation everywhere they can find room.  Don't EVER give them room.  Put #8 hardware cloth on the top of the inner cover hole.  Put your jar on that.  The bees will reach through the screen.  If you can't find #8 hardware cloth, block the exposed part of the hole with anything that bees can't chew through.  Screen wire.  A tin can lid.  Something.

[saltybluegrass]

Mr Bush if I jumped the gun and put a super on too soon can I move the frames they are working up there  back to the bottom brood box where there are unworked frames?

[incognito]

>The top boxes are sitting on the inner covers and are intended to only have the syrup jars in them.

Then you need to COMPLETELY exclude the bees from that box. Don't EVER give them room.  If you can't find #8 hardware cloth, block the exposed part of the hole with anything that bees can't chew through.  Screen wire.  A tin can lid.  Something.

I will get the hardware cloth tomorrow.

For now I cut a hole in corrugated plastic (the type used for temporary signs) to fit the jar lid and covered the oblong hole, securing that with two bricks. The 10 to 20 bees were on top of the inner cover were chased out of the top box.

[Michael Bush]

>Mr Bush if I jumped the gun and put a super on too soon can I move the frames they are working up there  back to the bottom brood box where there are unworked frames?

Yes.

>For now I cut a hole in corrugated plastic (the type used for temporary signs) to fit the jar lid and covered the oblong hole, securing that with two bricks. The 10 to 20 bees were on top of the inner cover were chased out of the top box.

Good.

[incognito]

Today I recorded the landing boards of Hive 1 (painted white) and Hive 2 (stained cedar) on day 6. The packages were installed on 4/20 late in the afternoon. I am feeding 1:1 syrup with a small amount of Ultra Bee Pollen Substitute Patties on top of the frames.

Hive 1 has more pollen coming in. The queen was out of her cage yesterday. I did not look for her. I pulled out an end frame, slid the others over an inch, pulled the cage and promptly exited the hive. My mission was to see if she was out and to remove the cage from between the frames. The bees were working 3 seams. I don't plan on going back in for at least a week.

I will do a longer inspection of Hive 2 on Saturday with my son.

Let me know if the videos reveal anything worth mentioning.

Hive 1:
https://youtu.be/am3ymoauDpI



Hive 2:
https://youtu.be/gNVWIka6JNE

[saltybluegrass]

Bad links

[BeeMaster2]

They do not work for me either.

[incognito]

Bad links

They do not work for me either.

I never uploaded videos on YouTube before. They were classified as "Private", now they are "Unlisted". Let me know if that works.

[Nock]

Yep they are working now.

[BeeMaster2]

Same here.

[saltybluegrass]

I?m new but I would use a bigger entrance on the white box- they are stacking up pretty good

[incognito]

We briefly inspected both hives yesterday. Overcast and near 50 degrees. Almost no activity outside of the hives.

We saw for the first time that the queen cage in hive 2 was empty, I knew that she was out a few days ago on hive 1. The comb built to date was orderly. No ill impact of putting the queen cage between frames of new foundation. The comb was the most built out on the foundation near the queen cage.

The frames were packed with bees and I elected to leave them alone as to not disturb their comb building, sacrificing getting a better look inside the cells. I thought that the queen would not yet be laying eggs, waiting for the comb to be built up more, so I did not search for eggs.
Things seem to be progressing well since we installed the packages last Saturday afternoon.

How long do I wait before going back in and doing a comprehensive inspection? Do I give them enough time to cap brood before going back in?

[BeeMaster2]

I would give her at least 2 weeks to get established. This will allow you to see the capped brood pattern.
Jim Altmiller

[incognito]

Thanks Jim, and others for your replies
When looking at the videos my daughter took, we see eggs/larvae in two, maybe three cells from hive 2. Unfortunately one cell has 3 eggs/larvae in it. Let's hope the queen is just getting into her routine and the workers will take care of the isolated issue.


Today there was a pile up at the entrance on hive 1. I went there and saw the same thing a few hours later along with lots of pollen coming in and some orientation flights going on. The ladies finally found some deep orange/golden pollen along with the white pollen they had been harvesting.
I temporarily switched to the larger opening and within minutes the backlog cleared. I switched back to smaller opening shortly thereafter when I saw two bees tumble to the ground in a death match, presumably one of them an unwelcome guest.

[BeeMaster2]

Tom,
Looks like a good start. Good looking hive stand.
Jim Altmiller

[incognito]

Tom,
Looks like a good start. Good looking hive stand.
Jim Altmiller

Thanks. It is intended for 2 hives and work space in the middle. Time will tell if I should have dug the corner posts in a tad deeper.

I have another 10 frame hive assembly that I will put out as a swarm box this week. I want to prevent a swarm from my hive nesting in my Mom's house/shed/garage so I don't lose my apiary lease. LOL. Should I place it on the stand or in another corner of the yard about 80 feet away?

[incognito]

never mind

[BeeMaster2]

That is a good question. I would put it somewhere else at about 5 to 7 feet high.
Jim Altmiller

[incognito]

Hive 2 has been consistently consuming more syrup than hive 1. Since Saturday afternoon, hive 1 consumed about 1/2 quart of syrup (from a 1 quart glass jar) while hive 2 consumed 1 1/2 quarts of syrup (from a 2 quart plastic jar). The difference has been driving me nuts trying to figure out why - leaking or robbing were my two main fears. Remember, hive 2 has a shorter entrance than hive 1 but no entrance reducer. Hive 1 has the entrance reducer set to the smallest opening.

I lifted the inverted jar off of the inner cover on hive 2 to see if there was a sticky mess below and saw bees packed shoulder to shoulder vertically in the round hole almost the size of the jar lid reaching up for the syrup. I only saw their dry heads.

I then lifted the jar off of the inner cover on hive 1 to see less bees in the oblong hole and one clinging horizontally to the jar lid, the oblong hole in hive 1 providing way less access to the round jar lid than in hive 2.

Assuming that the jar lids have approximately the same number of holes in them - the bees in hive 2 have more access to the jar lid than in hive 1. The bees were not flying much due to chilly damp weather, so I don't think I saw robber bees in hive 2.
So now I am wondering if the bees in hive 2 are putting the syrup to good use or are they just storing it in cells on new plastic foundation which could be better used for pollen or brood. Or are the foragers in hive 1 bringing back more nectar than pollen. Remember that hive 1 was bringing in way less pollen than hive 2 until a few days ago.
I can't wait to compare the two hives upon the next inspection to see which has put its resources to better use.

[ed/La.]

Put some dye in the syrup. You will see if they are storing it . Are they producing comb equally? You might be over thinking this. 1 hive might have a  better nectar source located.

[incognito]

Are they producing comb equally?

That is partly what I am curious to find out at the next inspection.

[Donovan J]

It would be nice if you had some drawn comb. Can you get a few frames from bee friend or club member?  Queen will have nowhere to lay. A lot of work for a package. Nice to give them a jump start. A frame of brood would be best.

I installed a package on Monday and checked them yesterday on Wednesday to get the queen cage. I got the cage out and checked one of the frames. It was well drawn out with comb and they were storing syrup and pollen and i think i saw eggs. The comb situation should be fine as long as they have some light syrup.

[ed/La.]

Eggs are hard to see in new comb. White on white.

[incognito]

We did inspections on Saturday, day 15 - the packages were installed two Saturdays ago.

Ten frame deep hive 1 with the entrance reducer on the smallest opening is progressing nicely. Capped brood on a few frames. The bees were heavily concentrated on three frames. Some minimal comb building outside of the core. The bees are working 3 seams.

Eight frame deep hive 2 with no entrance reducer is progressing much faster. There is about the same amount of capped brood as hive 1. The brood is more vertically spaced across more frames than horizontally spaced on fewer frames. There is much more comb building, on at least 6 of the 8 frames. The bees are working 5 seams but have not filled the bottom and bottom corners of the frames with comb. Hive 2 has an inch or two of white wax capped stores on the top rows of a few frames. Hive 2 has been consuming two to three times the amount of syrup as hive 1.

I think I am going to need to add another 8 frame deep brood body to hive 2 soon. I was told to add another box when the bees are working 5 seams. My son wants to add the next deep below the existing brood next weekend because he does not want to disturb the configuration working so well right now, thinking that they will find the room if they need it and then moving the new deep above the existing brood box the following week. I think there is no reason to decide that until we see what is happening in a week. I am under the impression that the new brood bodies should always be added above the existing brood - that bees generally work upward and not downward. I am concerned that the bees will feel like they are running out of space and may swarm. The first of the brood should not be emerging until next Tuesday or so.
My plan was to leave all the honey stores for the bees this winter, not using honey supers at all.

Any thoughts?

[incognito]

Are both colonies within the range of acceptable progress?

Do I need to make some adjustments to hive 1?

Or is hive 2 exceptional?

Day 22 inspection was done on Saturday. The first batch of brood should be emerging this week.


We added a second brood chamber to hive 2. There is little space left to draw comb on the first 8 frames. This hive is still consuming two to three times the amount of syrup as hive 1 - and it shows.

Hive 1 seems okay. Hive 1 does not appear to be storing syrup or nectar like hive 2. There are some cells with dark liquid in the hive. Do you guys see anything out of the ordinary? Should I change the feeder  on hive 1 (the cap on the inverted jar feeder has much smaller holes than on hive 2, and less holes are exposed through the inner cover)? Hive 1 has way more small ants, hive 2 has hardly any at all.


We spotted the queen in both hives, hive 1 when more slowly going through the frames, hive 2 when reviewing the video.



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