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Author Topic: Grafting and Queen replacement  (Read 1426 times)

Offline BurleyBee

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Grafting and Queen replacement
« on: June 09, 2020, 07:36:09 am »
I did a few walk away splits in early spring with some success, but wanting to try my hand at grafting.  I understand the basics of the process, but have a few questions and was hoping this board could walk me through the process.  I currently have 4 big hives and 2-3 Nucs.  I have some extra Nuc equipment and deeps for possible expansion.  Only 1 of my big hives was able to make a surplus of honey so far.  I?ve run in to many problems the past year with the other hives.  My main goal is to raise at least 4 quality queens so these main hives can be primed for next spring coming mg out of winter.

My biggest obstacle is my Apairy is an hour from my house.

Option 1

So this is the start of my question.  Would it be better to make up a Nuc, bring home, graft and start those cells, transport to apiary and have hatch out in newly made splits?  If so, how long do those splits need to be queenless before adding queen cell?  What?s the best way to transport queen cells from home to Apiary?

Option 2

Have Queens hatch into some sort of bank.  Transport virgins to apiary and place in newly made Nuc.  Again, how long does Nuc need to be queenless before introducing virgin?

I?m wanting to get these queens laying before placing in big hives.

Last question.  What?s the best way to get these big hives to accept new queen?  How long after pinching old queen do I need to wait before introducing mated queen?

Sorry for long post.  Any help will be greatly appreciated.
@burleybeeyard

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2020, 11:27:26 am »
Long post, short answers.

Makeup mating nucs.  Ration the resources taken so the big hives continue to make honey. Make the nucs as small as possible.  1.5 frame of bees, 0.5 frame of brood.  (2Frames) is all it takes to mate a queen.  Less if you have the minis.   Nucs queenless for 6 hours minimum, 24 hours maximum.
Place ripe queen cells
Do not disturb for 14-18 days before checking.   Leave another 7 days before harvesting or moving her.
To requeen big hives.  Make queenless for 6 hours then insert the whole mating/mated nuc.  (Preferred).  Or put her under a push in cage, lowest risk.  Easiest but riskiest is cage her and introduce as any other caged queen.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2020, 03:58:05 pm »
Mr, Butley, I am guessing you wish to graft only a few queens, like max 10 larva.  You will make mistakes your first attempt to graft however you will improve with each attempt.  Start with 10 each day old larva.  You will be doing good if 5 are made into queen cells.

I would start with a full size nuc and since you are only grafting a few larva, a few cells, the nuc can be both a starter hive and finisher hive.  For small scale only! Normal is use separate starter and finisher hives or single large hive with a cloak board.  Your queen hatch in 16 days but remember you started with a 4 day old egg/larva so figure 12 days from graft date to hatch.

Newly capped queen cells are very delicate, do not touch the newly capped cells.  About day 14 you can move the queen cells but remember to keep in vertical position if transporting.  Do not lay the qc on its side.

Once a qc is capped you should cage to protect the qc and prevent the hatching queens from killing other queens.  I use nicot hair roller cages.

When making the nuc, be sure there is no queen or the bees will not make queen cells.  There must be plenty of food frames, pollen, nectar or honey in the nuc.  Pollen is a must.  I would place the nuc in backyard to prevent robbing by the resource hive.

All Good Things

HP has advised on the mating nucs.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 09:02:27 pm by van from Arkansas »
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Nock

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Re: Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2020, 05:51:30 pm »
Any way you can leave your mating nucs at your house?  That way you don?t have to make the drive until they have came back mated.

Offline BurleyBee

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Re: Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2020, 09:40:55 pm »
I don?t really have that luxury yet to have them at home.  Working on that.  At least gas is cheap.
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Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2020, 06:58:54 am »
Not wanting to pour cold water on your enthusiasm, but is your main hive good enough to breed queens from.
I know this is all an adventure and fun but if you want strong hives next year then should you purchase some queens from a known breeder or some one recommended by other BK's.
Put these into your hives and then breed from the best one that has the characteristics you want.

Offline BurleyBee

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Re: Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2020, 07:27:04 am »
It?s 7 deeps tall.  Already harvested 50 lbs off of it May 8 to give more room.  It?s packed back out.  I know I?m still new to this, but I can?t imagine a hive being any better than this one. 
@burleybeeyard

Offline Oldbeavo

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Re: Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2020, 07:39:41 pm »
Of the 7 tall how many are brood chamber and how full are the rest?
How do you manage a 7 deep tall hive? Lifting supers to that height?
As we only run 2 or 3 high, single brood box, and if we get to 4 its rare.
As 7 high is very different management to me, could some one explain the logic of this management.

Offline BurleyBee

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Re: Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2020, 10:16:00 pm »
I?m sorry.  It?s 6 deeps.  Anyhow, I like running deeps to keep things easy. I?m not sure how many boxes have brood at this point.  It had 2 deeps packed going into spring.  I pulled a few frames for a split early, then let it take off supering.  I?m a big boy so the deeps aren?t a problem.  I will pull my truck up behind the hive when I remove the top box for harvest.
@burleybeeyard

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2020, 01:28:39 am »
I?m sorry.  It?s 6 deeps.  Anyhow, I like running deeps to keep things easy. I?m not sure how many boxes have brood at this point.  It had 2 deeps packed going into spring.  I pulled a few frames for a split early, then let it take off supering.  I?m a big boy so the deeps aren?t a problem.  I will pull my truck up behind the hive when I remove the top box for harvest.

Burley, I have a 5 deep nuc hive that I caught this spring from a swarm on a limb,  that I placed in a single 5 frame nuc box. When I first began beekeeping and posting here a couple years ago, beepro was doing an experiment using 5 frame nucs for the understanding of quick build up. I thought I would give it a try just for fun. Of course the 5 frame nucs are not nearly as sturdy as full 10 frame deep boxes. Even so I am sticking with it and will add boxes as needed but reality of such narrow boxes and wind do not mix lol. When it is time to add another 5 framer, I will probably strap her down. lol.😁. Keep us informed of your progress.

Phillip
 
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Offline Robo

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Re: Grafting and Queen replacement
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2020, 09:51:00 pm »
I'd forgo the grafting until you have bees closer.  You are just setting yourself up for failure as a first time grafter trying to add an hour commute into it.   Since you are only looking for a handful of queens, I would suggest OTS.   It will give you much better queens than walk away splits.   
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