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Author Topic: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?  (Read 5931 times)

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #180 on: May 11, 2022, 06:31:37 pm »
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The data gathered seems to point to better outcome at lower price.  We pay aprox 130% percent more but they have better numbers on longevity and infant mortality.

This is from WHO and they do not compare apples to apples.  The numbers are self reported and do not take many things into account.

One example is infant mortality.  In this country if a baby is born alive even if it is very premature, and it dies, it is considered an infant death.  In the UK, if a baby if born before their cut off (24 weeks last I heard) and dies after being born it is called a miscarriage.  WHO numbers do not take into account things like immigrants and their prior medical care, or the condition they were in when they arrived, as an example.

It is possible that there is a lower dollar cost in some places, but that is not the only way to calculate cost.  My sister lives in the UK.  She has developed afib.  She has had to go to the ER a number of times in the last few months, and her GP wants a cardiologist to see her.  There isn't one available for months and then she'll have to travel quite a distance to see him/her. 
The same condition here would have her seen immediately.  That's just the latest example. 

Her FIL was treated twice for lung cancer.  He developed cognitive problems.  Here, the first thing they would do is look for the spread of the prior cancer.  There, they treated him for depression and put him in a nursing home as he got worse.  It was only a couple of weeks before he died that they thought to scan him and found the cancer had spread to his brain.  They could not have saved him in any case, but he could have put his house in order and done things differently with his remaining time if they had diagnosed him.

There are campgrounds on the AZ border filled with Canadians who drive their RV down and pay case for care in Mexico because they can't get seen in Canada.  Costa Rica has a huge medical tourism economy for the same reason + they are a great example of the way cash for care keeps costs down.

Here?  I see ads for getting a flu shot that your insurance will cover.  WE did this by thinking everything needed to be paid for by someone else and this increased the cost by a lot...but we also have access to care that others can't get or can't get in a timely fashion.  In the UK, if you want timely care and access, you pay for private insurance and you have to do it before you get sick because they don't take pre-existing conditions most of the time. 

One last thing from my observations in the UK.  If you are in London, or another big city, the hospitals are pretty modern.  If you are not, they are frozen in time looking like ww2 open ward green painted throwbacks.  Shared eating, shared bathrooms, etc.  Great way to spread disease all over the place. 

We can have "free", but we will pay more than money for it.  We are already paying for the expansion of welfare medicine because people who get free stuff tend not to treat it very well.  Who cares?  It's FREE!!
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Online gww

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #181 on: May 11, 2022, 07:13:26 pm »
There are plenty of antidotal horror stories in america as well.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #182 on: May 11, 2022, 07:30:50 pm »
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There are plenty of antidotal horror stories in america as well.

There may be, but I'll go back to my suggestion that if you want to sell something, examples are helpful.  We keep hearing stories about people suffering because of lack of care, but when Obamacare was being sold not one of those people was shown.  They trotted out a child who had lost his mother and said it was from lack of care, but it turned out that she had turned down the care offered. 

There is one really simple thing that would make far more care available immediately and for free or at a very low price.  Deal with tort reform. I know a lot of medical people who volunteer their services in other countries but will not do it here.   They do not want to be sued and their malpractice insurance is usually covered by their employer and does not cover out of network work.  Charity hospitals and clinics face the same things and that's why there are few of them around anymore.

There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #184 on: May 12, 2022, 08:42:05 am »
Costa Rica has a huge medical tourism economy for the same reason + they are a great example of the way cash for care keeps costs down.
And a perfect example for no cash no care.  Back to a cast system of the haves and have nots which is the whole point of the affordable care act.  It is no secrete that US health care is the most expensive in the world.  This is purely due to corporate greed.  The biggest thing I find wrong with Obama care is it involves profit based insurance companies.  Eliminate the insurance companies and health care will cost what ever ALL the American people can afford.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #185 on: May 12, 2022, 08:43:23 am »
The same corrupt system strangles Medicare.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #186 on: May 12, 2022, 12:57:46 pm »
Sorry guys.  I don't have it in me to do this again.  You want single payer.  Go for it.  We will be dead before the system degrades and our kids and grandkids pay for it with lack of the kind of care we ALL get now.

You might take a moment to look at why the CA single payer plan failed.  You might also consider that only 1/2 the country is paying taxes, so the cost most definitely won't go down for those paying for it.

But hey!  That's OK.  It's the intent that matters...
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Offline Acebird

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #187 on: May 13, 2022, 08:32:25 am »
You might also consider that only 1/2 the country is paying taxes,
That could be solved too.  Flat rate no filing required.  No loop holes.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #188 on: May 13, 2022, 12:37:52 pm »
Flat rate 10% for  everyone. Absolutely. 

Offline Acebird

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #189 on: May 14, 2022, 08:36:23 am »
The rate should be based on what the country owes so if the bill goes up so do the taxes.  Then congress simply legislates bills not taxes.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #190 on: May 14, 2022, 09:18:49 am »
Ace,
The more taxes we give them the more they spend/waste, much of which goes back into their pockets.
Limit it to 10%.
Jim Altmiller

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #191 on: May 14, 2022, 03:33:43 pm »
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Flat rate 10% for  everyone. Absolutely.

Everyone.  If everyone had skin in the game they would care more about how money was spent.  They ought to care right now because they are paying the price with inflation, but a lot of folks don't make the connection. 
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Online gww

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #192 on: May 14, 2022, 03:53:12 pm »
So the whole world is experiencing inflation but our tax spending is what is causing it?  I am not buying this.  I might buy that it cost the one percent higher then some other place but that would be it and you can look around and not be influenced by the mischaracterization being put forth if you just open your eyes and look around at more then your own backyard.   Such surface tools as this argument can make people make bad decisions cause they sound true but may not be.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #193 on: May 14, 2022, 04:47:23 pm »
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So the whole world is experiencing inflation but our tax spending is what is causing it?  I am not buying this.  I might buy that it cost the one percent higher then some other place but that would be it and you can look around and not be influenced by the mischaracterization being put forth if you just open your eyes and look around at more then your own backyard.   Such surface tools as this argument can make people make bad decisions cause they sound true but may not be

Inflation is simply explained as too many dollars chasing too few goods.  An example would be where both my boys live.  Different states but both experiencing a lot of growth and new people moving in.  Homes have increased in value by a huge amount because there are not enough of them for all the people looking to buy. 

We would probably be experiencing some inflation because of supply chain issues and the general slowdown of things during COVID, but things have been made worse by the government.

The economy was already beginning to recover but the government saw fit to pump trillions into it.   At the same time, they made other decisions, like trying to kill off the fossil fuel industry. That alone has had a huge impact on prices.  Everything we buy depends on transportation.  Transportation takes fuel.
  They got those trillions primarily by printing money. It was not the spending of revenue.   Printing money devalues it.  This further exacerbates inflation.  We are also sending billions of dollars in both goods and money to Ukraine.  Some of that will be to the benefit of our arms industry, but much is just money and goods that we are not even tracking.
Another thing that has contributed to inflation, although at a lesser rate, is artificially forcing wages higher.  That alone would have led to a small amount of inflation, but it has to be taken with everything else as a contributor. 

Spewing money might be good for elections, but it is bad for the economy.  Go back and look at some of what happened in the 70s both with interest rates, monetary policy, and the recession that followed.

Also read up on Modern Monetary Theory.  This is what is guiding much of the world right now and it is no wonder that we and they are experiencing inflation.

So yes, we would have experienced some inflation due to things out of our control, but cheap money and injections of cash that was not needed have made it much worse along with some other decisions that were bad.
Now the fed will crank up interest rates to try to fix what they and the government have messed up.
The solution will be a recession even though they say they are trying to avoid that. 

There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Offline Acebird

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #194 on: May 15, 2022, 09:27:16 am »

Inflation is simply explained as too many dollars chasing too few goods.

Oxford's definition
1.the action of inflating something or the condition of being inflated.
"the inflation of a balloon"
2.
ECONOMICS
a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money.

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The economy was already beginning to recover but the government saw fit to pump trillions into it.   At the same time, they made other decisions, like trying to kill off the fossil fuel industry. That alone has had a huge impact on prices.  Everything we buy depends on transportation.  Transportation takes fuel.
Kill off the fossil fuel industry? That is a laugh.  What people are trying to do is lower emissions and make a better world for our offspring.  Greedy oil companies are resisting.
 
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They got those trillions primarily by printing money. It was not the spending of revenue.
 
Printing money was done because it was already spent.  It happened in the Trump administration by lowering revenue after the money was spent.
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We are also sending billions of dollars in both goods and money to Ukraine.  Some of that will be to the benefit of our arms industry, but much is just money and goods that we are not even tracking.
You mean like all the money and goods that went to the middle east?
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Another thing that has contributed to inflation, although at a lesser rate, is artificially forcing wages higher.  That alone would have led to a small amount of inflation, but it has to be taken with everything else as a contributor. 
Assuming that the market determines price of goods then raising minimum wage does not increase the price of goods and therefore does not affect inflation.  Raising minimum wage boosts the economy and puts more money in circulation.  What it does is reduce the income of the 1% and increase the incomes of the 80%.  The only way inflation comes into play is increase demand for goods.  But for the most part these goods are necessities and not yachts and villas or extravagant vacations.

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Spewing money might be good for elections, but it is bad for the economy.  Go back and look at some of what happened in the 70s both with interest rates, monetary policy, and the recession that followed.
The trouble I am having with your rant is that you believe this only happens when the democrats do it.  Record breaking deficits occurred in the last administration.  Conservatives are content when spending is going to the top at the perils of the bottom.
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Now the fed will crank up interest rates to try to fix what they and the government have messed up.
The solution will be a recession even though they say they are trying to avoid that.
Yeah, I would say a recession is in Putin's plan which is why we should have offed him right from the start.  Looking on the good side the world is becoming more polarized with Sweden and Finland looking at NATO.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #195 on: May 15, 2022, 01:19:45 pm »
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a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money.

and how does that happen?

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Kill off the fossil fuel industry? That is a laugh.  What people are trying to do is lower emissions and make a better world for our offspring.  Greedy oil companies are resisting.

Ok, but how does stuff get to where you need it?  Magic? 
You = making money with greed.  Did you get paid when you worked?  Maybe you should have done what you did for the good of whatever your industry was and not taken a check or a retirement?

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Printing money was done because it was already spent.  It happened in the Trump administration by lowering revenue after the money was spent.

It doesn't matter why it was done.  If you don't have it you should not be spending it.  If the solution is to print money then you devalue it and it is a major contributor to inflation.
revenue was up under Trump.  There was a short drop immediately after the tax cuts, but the following booming economy increased tax revenue without raising taxes.  There was never a - revenue collection.
Go down to tax revenue by year.
https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762#toc-us-tax-revenue-by-year

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You mean like all the money and goods that went to the middle east?

That too. 

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Assuming that the market determines price of goods then raising minimum wage does not increase the price of goods and therefore does not affect inflation.  Raising minimum wage boosts the economy and puts more money in circulation.  What it does is reduce the income of the 1% and increase the incomes of the 80%.  The only way inflation comes into play is increase demand for goods.  But for the most part these goods are necessities and not yachts and villas or extravagant vacations.

Not so.  There's a reason that places like Costco and Walmart are OK with increasing minimum wage absent market forces.  It does not hurt them but it does hurt small businesses.  The Costcos of the world then scoop up that business.

Employment costs are a calculation in market forces.  Labor is usually one of the most expensive costs for businesses.  If labor costs go up, the money has to be made up somewhere.  Usually, it will be in the cost of goods and services.  The franchise charges more for food, the mechanic charges more for fixing your car, etc.  Alone this is a small thing, but when we have the perfect storm as we have now, it has to be part of the calculation.  It added to cost, but because of inflation in general, nothing was gained.

You can not bottom-up an economy no matter what Marx said. 

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The trouble I am having with your rant is that you believe this only happens when the democrats do it.  Record breaking deficits occurred in the last administration.  Conservatives are content when spending is going to the top at the perils of the bottom.

Not at all.  We have not had a fiscally responsible government for a long time.  Debt and deficit spending by itself is not the worst thing we can do.  Consider your own spending.  If your refrigerator breaks and you don't have the cash for it, you will buy it on credit.  That's OK as long as you know you will have the money to pay the bill.  Your debt to income ratio has to allow you to pay back.  Same with buying a car, house, etc.  Rarely do we pay for these big things with cash.
In the same way, if the government needs to do or get something, they may do deficit spending but if they can pay the bill, they don't increase the debt.  If something happens and they can't pay the bill the debt increases and the debt to GDP is really important. 

https://www.thebalance.com/national-debt-by-year-compared-to-gdp-and-major-events-3306287

What we are talking about now is inflaton.  That is a seperate issue although the above can contribute.

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Yeah, I would say a recession is in Putin's plan which is why we should have offed him right from the start.  Looking on the good side the world is becoming more polarized with Sweden and Finland looking at NATO.

I am not sure how you think offing Putin would have helped with the inflation that started before Putins invasion of Ukraine (or at all).  WE did this and while it if Bidens favorite thing to blame Putin, he put forth the plan that caused this and his dem congress voted it in. 
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

Offline Acebird

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #196 on: May 16, 2022, 09:36:31 am »
and how does that happen?
Many ways previously discussed.

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Ok, but how does stuff get to where you need it?  Magic? 
In our country mostly by plane and truck which causes a huge dependency on oil.  If we invested in rail we could decrease our dependency on oil and lower our carbon footprint.  Instead we invest in oil.  Being that the oil companies have such a strangle hold on our government it is unlikely that this problem will get better especially when republicans are in power.
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You = making money with greed.  Did you get paid when you worked? 
Getting paid for what you do is not greed.  Greed involves taking advantage of someone else.

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If you don't have it you should not be spending it.  If the solution is to print money then you devalue it and it is a major contributor to inflation.
Agreed.

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revenue was up under Trump. 
As it is now during the Biden administration.  What Trump didn't have or I should say he ignored was the pandemic and all the false claims that ended up making it worse.

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There's a reason that places like Costco and Walmart are OK with increasing minimum wage absent market forces.  It does not hurt them but it does hurt small businesses.  The Costcos of the world then scoop up that business.
Sounds like you are complaining about capitalistic greed.

 
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Labor is usually one of the most expensive costs for businesses.  If labor costs go up, the money has to be made up somewhere.  Usually, it will be in the cost of goods and services.

No.  Price = supply and demand.  Increased labor cost come from lower profits or lower payroll and benefits for management.  As you can expect management doesn't like that and will apply pressure on government.

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The trouble I am having with your rant is that you believe this only happens when the democrats do it.  Record breaking deficits occurred in the last administration.  Conservatives are content when spending is going to the top at the perils of the bottom.

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Rarely do we pay for these big things with cash.
That is where the problem lies.  Not having the cash or assets to back up your purchases.  In good times money is easy to get but in bad times loans get called in or dry up.  Banks should not be telling you what you can afford.  You should learn as an individual what you can afford based on your spending habits.  If someone ask me what they can afford I ask them what they have in the bank and how long did it take to get that amount?
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In the same way, if the government needs to do or get something, they may do deficit spending but if they can pay the bill, they don't increase the debt.  If something happens and they can't pay the bill the debt increases and the debt to GDP is really important. 
Government should never take on debt.
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I am not sure how you think offing Putin would have helped with the inflation that started before Putins invasion of Ukraine (or at all).

The energy crisis would not exist if Putin was offed.  Inflation would take care of itself if there were not an energy crisis.
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WE did this and while it if Bidens favorite thing to blame Putin, he put forth the plan that caused this and his dem congress voted it in.
So far the congress has not passed anything with out the GOP agreeing to it.  At this stage of the game I think it is false to claim the congress is democratic controlled.  The president is democratic, the congress is republican and the supreme court is republican.  There are two branches of government controlled by republicans but some how Biden gets blamed for everything they do wrong.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #197 on: May 16, 2022, 11:55:36 am »
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In our country mostly by plane and truck which causes a huge dependency on oil.  If we invested in rail we could decrease our dependency on oil and lower our carbon footprint.  Instead we invest in oil.  Being that the oil companies have such a strangle hold on our government it is unlikely that this problem will get better especially when republicans are in power.

We move a lot of stuff by rail, but it still has to get from the rail station to the store.  what do trains run on and how do they compare in carbon footprint to other ways of transportation?  You would have to include the carbon cost of building the rail, trains, and running trucks back and forth for maintenance.  How long would it take when you are calculating both land use issues and the environmentalists that would haul it into court over and over. 
We don't have to use planes.  We can use ships.  How much fuel do ships use compared to planes for the same amount of goods moved? 

You go for it and live without anything to do with fossil fuels, and let us know how it works.  If you can do it, we can consider doing what you do!   :cheesy:

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Getting paid for what you do is not greed.  Greed involves taking advantage of someone else.

Yet you go on and on about greed.  If a business is getting paid for providing a good or service, is that greed?  Seems like they might be getting paid for what they do?  And you don't have to use them if you don't want to...

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As it is now during the Biden administration.  What Trump didn't have or I should say he ignored was the pandemic and all the false claims that ended up making it worse.

It is.  Revenue is not the issue.  Never was.  You brought it up.  The issue is where the money they are spending is coming from.
If you want to go on about Trump again then please put some references to your assertions.  If you can't, it's not worth anyones time.

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Sounds like you are complaining about capitalistic greed.

No, I am pointing out why these companies don't mind raising wages and benefits. 

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No.  Price = supply and demand.  Increased labor cost come from lower profits or lower payroll and benefits for management.  As you can expect management doesn't like that and will apply pressure on government.

So the cost of doing business, which includes labor, has no impact on price?  Do they have a community college where you live?  they probably have a business economics class there that you can take for not much money!

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That is where the problem lies.  Not having the cash or assets to back up your purchases.  In good times money is easy to get but in bad times loans get called in or dry up.  Banks should not be telling you what you can afford.  You should learn as an individual what you can afford based on your spending habits.  If someone ask me what they can afford I ask them what they have in the bank and how long did it take to get that amount?

This is the ideal way to live.  It is not my point though.  My point was that if you need something and you borrow to get it that's not the end of the world as long as you know you can pay it back with whatever interest accrues. 
Debt below GDP and revenue can be managed as long as there are no disasters.  We now have debt higher than GDP and if we have a recession, which I believe we will, revenue will be reduced.  Not only will we still be on the hook for the debt but the interest rate will be higher. 

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The energy crisis would not exist if Putin was offed.  Inflation would take care of itself if there were not an energy crisis.

energy prices were going up before Ukraine.  Biden did that.  Energy prices are only a part of the inflation picture.  Biden made it worse.  Ukraine has not helped, but this was happening before Putin invaded. 

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So far the congress has not passed anything with out the GOP agreeing to it.  At this stage of the game I think it is false to claim the congress is democratic controlled.  The president is democratic, the congress is republican and the supreme court is republican.  There are two branches of government controlled by republicans but some how Biden gets blamed for everything they do wrong.
 

Both houses of Congress are democrat controlled along with the presidency.  There are things that have not passed in the Senate because there are Democrats that have voted against them.  Good thing they did because spewing out more money would be a really bad idea right now.  Fortunately, a few people seem to have taken those economic classes and understand this.

The SCOTUS is now more Constitutional.  It's always kind of amazing to me that the left is so afraid of Justices who follow the law. 

We DO wonder who is really running the president though.  Pretty sure he's not in charge!






« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 12:06:30 pm by Kathyp »
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.? --Walt Whitman

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #198 on: May 16, 2022, 12:38:01 pm »
I would say that part of the problem is the making all businesses big and owned by so few people.  It makes things cheaper until something goes wrong.  I would use pig farming as an example.  In the early 70s lot of people with jobs also raised pigs as a hobby income and pigs were everywhere and had to travel not very far to a processing place.  Then in the late 70s big money started 35 thousand pig farms and passed legislation that took much of the money out of having a worth any longer for a hobbies to raise them.  The sad fact is that most of those big farms went bankrupt but many even bankrupt kept going but just were owned by fewer owners.  All to this does cause more transport of problems and also, almost no business has not gone the way of being consolidated down to some kind of monopoly.  Is it better?  Maybe when it works but when it fails, it also causes more disruption.  I do not know the answers but have lived long enough to see some of the changes.  Chasing the lowest wage and then shipping may have had some benefits but also sorta inslaves us along the lines of the criticisms of germany relying on russian oil.
Cheers
gww

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Re: Who believes our Nation is in a better spot than a year ago?
« Reply #199 on: May 16, 2022, 01:29:24 pm »
I would say that part of the problem is the making all businesses big and owned by so few people.  It makes things cheaper until something goes wrong.  I would use pig farming as an example.  In the early 70s lot of people with jobs also raised pigs as a hobby income and pigs were everywhere and had to travel not very far to a processing place.  Then in the late 70s big money started 35 thousand pig farms and passed legislation that took much of the money out of having a worth any longer for a hobbies to raise them.  The sad fact is that most of those big farms went bankrupt but many even bankrupt kept going but just were owned by fewer owners.  All to this does cause more transport of problems and also, almost no business has not gone the way of being consolidated down to some kind of monopoly.  Is it better?  Maybe when it works but when it fails, it also causes more disruption.  I do not know the answers but have lived long enough to see some of the changes.  Chasing the lowest wage and then shipping may have had some benefits but also sorta inslaves us along the lines of the criticisms of germany relying on russian oil.
Cheers
gww

And now Smithfield, (the largest pig and pork producer in the world), is now owned by Chinese acquisition as of '2013' by (Shuanghui Group).
Question; Where were our 'professional politicians' during this deal to acquire this American food Company? Leaders elected to look out for American interest in this one example of many?.. Wouldn't it have been nice to have a Leader and leaders who would have placed American interest first and foremost? Desiring to Make America Great Again for the good of all Americans?
 :wink:
   
 
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV