Siting my hive for mowing

[akwusmc]

All,

I'm going to site my 1st hive on the SE side of my house to catch the morning sun. I want to keep it fairly close to the house but I need to leave room to mow around it. I know that the bees aren't going to like any mower being around so should I leave enough for my push mower, or for the riding mower? Or should I astroturf around the hive site?

aw

[BeeMaster2]

All,

I'm going to site my 1st hive on the SE side of my house to catch the morning sun. I want to keep it fairly close to the house but I need to leave room to mow around it. I know that the bees aren't going to like any mower being around so should I leave enough for my push mower, or for the riding mower? Or should I astroturf around the hive site?

aw

I use my riding mower right up to the hives. Just do not allow any exhaust, grass or engine, hit the hives. The Astro turf would make it easier to maintain.
Jim

[KeyLargoBees]

where are you located AKWSUMC? If you are in an area where small hive beetles are an issue you might consider placing the hive(s) on a pad made out of pavers....works wonders to keep beetle numbers down and would give you grass free area under the hives...astroturf would work too but might not be as durable as pavers.

[Oblio13]

When I was a young and pretty fighter pilot, we were taught to never fly over a target twice. The first time you can surprise everyone, but if you circle around again, all the anti-aircraft gunners will be waiting. The expression was, "One pass, haul ass". I apply this philosophy to mowing near hives.

[BeeMaster2]

Oblio,
I used to worry about that on my second passes but I have only had trouble with mowing near my hives once. On that occasion I was using a new message mower to cut around my hives that were on a trailer. I never looked back to see how the grass was ejected. As soon as I passed the first hive they were all over my head and in my hair. I had to completely leave the area, about 250' before they left. I looked back at the shoot and the grass was going up and out from behind me instead of going down like I am used to. I tried 4 times, waiting 30 minutes each time. They were all over me even though the last time I was 50' away from the hive. I ended up putting on a vail and finished cutting the field.
Other than that I have never had a problem even though I cut right up under the hives and usually come back with a weed eater to get under the stands.
Do not cut the grass near the hives with a pending storm or during a storm. 
The first time I met a 30 year plus beekeeper at his place, he looked like he went  5 rounds with Cassius Clay.
After talking with him for a while I asked him what happened. He was cutting his grass with a riding mower near his hives like he had done hundreds of times. A storm came up quickly over head and his bees tore him up.
Jim

[rober]

as long as the grass was not being thrown towards the hive I could make multiple passes & was only harassed by an occasional guard bee. since I fenced the property I can no longer do drive byes. I had to pull in, back out reposition & repeat that 4 times. the bees are now on pavers & that tight corner has been planted in ground cover type plants so it no longer needs mowing. at my outyard I put down used carpet & covered that with mulch.

[akwusmc]

KeyLargo, I'm on Lookout Mtn in Rising Fawn, GA ... I've not been able to connect with the local bee club here but I 'm going to get with the extension office for general info.

Oblio13, as a Marine Corps vet I understand completely!

Sawdstmakr, the advice about storms is well-taken, as I believe I remember in Beekeeping for Dummies that storms and other meteorological stuff makes bees cranky (and trust me, I don't need much reason NOT to mow!).

rober, I'll keep your idea about old carpet and mulch in my back pocket!

aw

[GSF]

akwusmc, I'll be up your way in about another month. If you need me just holler.

I've always heard that the lightening in a storm discharges a lot of static electricity which in turns drives the bees crazy. I believe this. I went out to my bee yard one evening and they kept nailing me. It finally dawned on me that the storm on the horizon (which was missing us) was the reason why. I've noticed it a couple of times since then as well.

[BeeMaster2]

GSF,
As a storm approaches, the atmospheric pressure drops. With a exoskeleton the bees feel the change and this sets them off. Quite often we get the storms with no lightning but the bees are still cranky.
Jim

[little john]

I've always heard that the lightening in a storm discharges a lot of static electricity which in turns drives the bees crazy.

I wonder if you (or anyone else reading that line) realises the significance of those words ? It isn't 'the discharge' which is the underlying cause of the crankiness - but rather the prior build-up of static, the level of which may or may not 'flash over' into a discharge of lightning.

The bodies of bees are covered all over with hairs - their legs, feet, wing surfaces, even the 'cornea' of their eyes have hairs protuding from them. These hairs are known to carry electrostatic potentials acquired during flight. And the near-earth atmosphere (the few hundred feet above the ground) is known to have significant electrostatic charges radiating upwards at all times from 'spiky' objects (trees, masts, tall buildings etc), and not just prior to a storm.

These electrostatic 'leaders' (as they are called) are most prominent during the hot calm days of late sprng and summer - exactly the same time that drones and queens seek out DCAs (Drone Congregation Areas) - and, it is now known that DCAs are formed over areas of flat land immediately adjacent to tall trees, or similar 'spikes' in the topography.

Do bees then navigate using a three-dimensional electrostatic 'road-map' in the sky, one which is invisible to us humans ?  It's a very interesting possibility ...

LJ
 
 

[Acebird]

I put down used carpet & covered that with mulch.

You might regret that some day.  In less than 5 years most of the carpet will rot out but the warp threads will still be there.  The weeds come back and if you try to mow them the blade will pick up one string and you will have a job unwinding the mess.  Ask me how I know?  We now use pallets because we have them.  If the pallet is not solid use two and that covers up most the light so not much grows.

[Richard M]

Could also do a bit of prior preparation & planning. Block the entrances the night before and mow next morning.

[Acebird]

You got to take the block out sometime.  Do you garb up and use smoke for that?

I don't have any grass around my hives, chickens make sure of that.  I do have to pull weeds that they don't like and first year saplings which can be done in the fall or spring.  The weeds I only clear for about 4 ft around the hive because the bees love them and the chickens use them for cover.

[little john]

You got to take the block out sometime.  Do you garb up and use smoke for that?

I seal hives fairly often, as I live in 'spraying country'.  Just wait 10 minutes or so after any local disturbance, then pull the plug and walk away.  It usually takes the girls at least 10 seconds before they realise that their hive is now 'open for business'.
LJ

[Acebird]

I think that is a different situation.  We are talking about locking in bees and then agitating them by some mowing operation.  If it was during the warm summer you can't wait long for them to calm down.  And if you can how long should you wait?

[little john]

To clarify - I seal hives fairly often - probably 50% of the time for crop spraying, and 50% of the time for my own convenience - such as mowing, house repairs/ maintenance, - and of course as an immediate step should robbing ever break out.

Mowing doesn't seem to bother them very much - it's strimming which sends them ballistic.  I guess the high-pitched whirring must sound like a super-sized hornet to them.

When crop spraying is taking place, or when I need to nip robbing in the bud, they stay 'locked-up' all day.  When mowing, the hives are opened just as soon as I've finished.
When strimming, I allow at least 10 minutes, maybe a little longer - then I start opening the hives at the far end first, and work my way along the lines of hives.  I've never once had any kind of problem when opening hives which would require smoke or a veil.  In contrast, when I've left hives open, I've been attacked when spraying weedkiller 20 feet from a hive.  It was probably the high-pitched 'fizz' from the knapsack-sprayer lance which they objected to, as they attacked the arm and hand which was holding the lance.

Keeping a hive locked-down - even in summer - isn't a problem providing the hive has adequate ventilation, such as an open mesh floor, and a crown board (inner cover) with good sized holes which can be covered in mesh.
If the sun is really baking hot, then it would certainly pay to fit some kind of awning over a locked-down hive, in order to provide shade.  Excessive sun isn't normally an issue in Britain, but might be elsewhere ...

LJ

[KeyLargoBees]

Excessive sun isn't normally an issue in Britain, but might be elsewhere ...

Made me smile ;-)

[little john]

Excessive sun isn't normally an issue in Britain, but might be elsewhere ...

Made me smile ;-)

Yeah - apparently some beekeepers live in Florida ... (lucky sods)

A couple of years ago we had a summer's day (actually three days in a row if I remember correctly - made newspaper headlines).  This was my QD (quick'n'dirty) way of dealing with this brief taste of Florida:
 


 
LJ

[Richard M]

Excessive sun isn't normally an issue in Britain, but might be elsewhere ...

Made me smile ;-)

Yeah - apparently some beekeepers live in Florida ... (lucky sods)

A couple of years ago we had a summer's day (actually three days in a row if I remember correctly - made newspaper headlines).  ..................

Hey we had 235 degrees C this last Xmas Day.   




Edit: OOPs make that 35 degrees C

[KeyLargoBees]

Yeah Rich but ya'll are all upside down and backwards down there ;-)

[Joe D]

I have only had 1 or 2 bees ever buzz me when mowing.  One did follow me about 100' and sting, but she was the only one to sting.  Usually they don't pay a lot of attention to the riding mower.  Just don't have the discharge shoot in their direction.  I also try to have easy going bees.
 Down here we have to mow often and most of the year.

Good luck to you and your bees,

Joe D

[divemaster1963]

I found using those plastic pallets from the beverage company's work great. I put them on top of landscape fabric then place cedar shavings from my mill on top of fabric then the pallets. Grass will not grow for  3-5 years. Plus it somehow helps keep shb down and the moths down. Place the hive few inches back from the edges.

John

[BeeMaster2]

John,
I wonder if the Cedar shavings are confusing the SHB enough that they do not enter the hives.
Jim

[Acebird]

Cedar heartwood is a natural pesticide which is why it works for moths.

[divemaster1963]

John,
I wonder if the Cedar shavings are confusing the SHB enough that they do not enter the hives.
Jim

I'm no sure. But I'm using Eastern red cedar. But sence that is what is used as natural moth repellant may be the oils also effect shb's. I have notice fewer with it plus the full sun exposure.

John
I started using it when I notice during cutouts when I used cedar as smoker fuel that it drove shb's crazy and made then disorated even hours later.  Plus I have five fifty pound contractor trash bags full. I hate to waste things.  :tongue
When I plane boards.

[Acebird]

I would be reluctant to use cedar as a smoker fuel on bees.

[KeyLargoBees]

Sounds like he has already Ace ....and with no detriment....I am in his same boat in that I have bags full of Teak shavings and they make some very aromatic smoke and while they may not drive the SHB crazy like cedar they sure do burn well and so far no detriment to the bees and there are no signs they bees dislike it any more than smoke from untreated burlap, leaf litter, or twigs (sadly no pine needles available).

[Acebird]

Sounds like he has already Ace ....and with no detriment..

It is hard to tell the long term effects of a non lethal dose of a pesticide when continually used.  I stopped smoking over 40 years ago before I had any idea how bad it was for my health.  There could be no problem using cedar wood chips for smoker fuel but how would you know?

[little john]

I use the slum gum left over from wax recovery, mixed in with sawdust and shavings from box making. That mix is almost guaranteed to contain some cedar. As a smoker fuel it can be a bit reluctant to get started, but once going nothing will put it out.

The life of a bee is what ? - six weeks or so - and in that time the average bee gets 'puffed' six times or less. That's hardly a 'continuous exposure' to a sub-lethal pesticide. There's far more exposure to the volatile oil in a newly-built cedar brood box. But - if cedar oil did kill bees, then surely this would have been identified sometime during the last 150 years ?  Instead, it remains the No.1 wood of choice for making beehives.

LJ

[Acebird]

keep in mind that you are burning the chemical not just exposing the bees to the fumes at ambient.  My concern is not the bees that will die in 6 weeks it is the brood and specifically developing drones that could pass on bad genes.  When an organism is developing is when it is at its greatest risk of health issues.  I have no idea how bad burning cedar could be but it is something I wouldn't chance.

[Richard M]

What do we really know about the impacts on bees of any of the commonly used smoker fuels?

[Acebird]

I am not sure we do know but smoke has been used since the Egyptians and no data has come forth as being detrimental to honeybees.  I am not citing smoke as a problem.

[divemaster1963]

I started using it because I have it available to me free. But my uncle had used it ( when he had it available)  with his hives back in the sixties when a worked his hives. He never said that he had any problems. But he did have about 4000 hives.  The use of smoke is best if used sparingly with any type of fuel. Light indirect puff or two is all that is needed. The bees seem undetected by cedar. Plus the shavings are dry as bone.   The piles get rained on then dryer out and bagged so maybesome of the oils are leached out. DDon't know. But I have know quramins about using it  I have hive going on 6 years old and they are strongest . this weard winter has taken over 45% of my hives this year. Only my oldest  hives and a few of the stronger new hives made it.

John

[Dallasbeek]

Quramins?  What's that, please?  That more of that tapatalk lingo? :)

[little john]

That puzzled me for a moment - I think it's " no qualms", typed with too many fingers !

Having looked-up the combustion products of Cedarwood Oil (which I've discovered doesn't only originate in Cedar Wood - now there's a tale ...) I wouldn't completely dismiss Brian's concerns - but - my own view is that unless there is some convincing evidence that there definitely IS a problem, I can't see any need to be too concerned. Kind of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

And - as all my hives put clouds of bees into the air yesterday (the first proper 'flying day' of this season) confirming zero winter losses - yet again - I don't see that any of my beekeeping procedures currently requires re-evaluation. But - if I was losing colonies in significant numbers, then certainly I'd be examining every possible cause.

LJ

[Acebird]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

LJ I believe in that too.  I use cardboard and God only knows what chemicals are in that and I have thought about that too.  However, many people use cardboard if not just to start the smoker.  It sure is convenient for quick looks and only needing smoke for one to three hives.

[little john]

Sure - whatever happened to using cardboard ?  During my schooldays I belonged to the Beekeeping Club, and all we ever used to use was rolled-up cardboard - nothing else.  If memory serves, the smoke was a little on the hot side, but it didn't seem to cause any problems. Mind you - whether modern-day cardboard is the same as the 1950's stuff is anyone's guess. There were precious few chemicals in regular use back then (let's not talk about DDT ...) - and it wouldn't surprise me if modern stuff is indeed 'dodgy'.

LJ

 

[Acebird]

the smoke was a little on the hot side,

I throw a handful of sawdust on top to keep it cool.  If I need the smoke for a longer time I have to throw more saw dust on it or it will get real hot as the saw dust burns through.

[divemaster1963]

Quramins?  What's that, please?  That more of that tapatalk lingo? :)

Yep fat fingers and small keypad on 5 inch table. Makes many a person the worst typer in the world.
John

[Dallasbeek]

So what did the fat fingers mean to write? 

"The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on.  Nor all your piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all your tears wash out a word of it.". -- Omar Khayam

[divemaster1963]

The word is qualms.
The meaning is a sudden disturbing feeling.
John