Frame storage and wax moths

[derekNGA]

What can I do to prevent wax moths from laying on stored frames?  Ive read that good ventilation and day light are good moth discouraging methods.  I must have stubborn moths that do not follow those rules.  Is para moth balls a wise choice?
I bought some to try, put them under the frames Saturday, here it is the following Friday and I can not find a single para moth ball and the frames are moth larvae covered again.  Just like to know what others are doing. 

[little john]

What can I do to prevent wax moths from laying on stored frames?  Ive read that good ventilation and day light are good moth discouraging methods. 

I don't know who's promoting that idea, but in the past I've stored combs for a week or two within open boxes in a glasshouse - and it doesn't get more 'daylight and ventilation' than that - and I found that wax moths have a field-day with them like that.  Covering the boxes above and below cured the problem - but only in the short-term.

Robo came up with a good idea the other day regarding the use of ozone-generating UV lamps.  I'm going to dig out an electronic fly-killer (the sort with a blue-white light and high voltage mesh) I have somewhere, and try that.
LJ

[eltalia]

What can I do to prevent wax moths from laying on stored frames?  Ive read that good ventilation and day light are good moth discouraging methods. 

(edit)
Robo came up with a good idea the other day regarding the use of ozone-generating UV lamps.  I'm going to dig out an electronic fly-killer (the sort with a blue-white light and high voltage mesh) I have somewhere, and try that.
LJ

I am crushed the "green solution" never got a mention, crushed I tellya..
to the point of one dimensional inertness! 


Cheers.


Bill

[sc-bee]

Xentari-   Bacillus thuringiensis, subsp. aizawai,

[texanbelchers]

As I understand it, BT doesn't stop the moth, just the larva after they have eaten too much.

[Joe D]

I don't have a lot to store, so this may not be suitable for some, I put my fames to be stored in a freezer for at least 2 days more when I can.  Then I put them in plastic containers with a lid that fits fairly tight.  So far haven't had any problems doing this. I use tote bins from Lowes, they are black with yellow lids.  Don't remember how many frames will fit, that also is different on what size frames you use.  Frames I store are mediums and shallow mostly.  I think I get about 25 or so per bin.

Good luck to you and your bees,

Joe D

[salvo]

Hi Folks,

I've had good luck for the past few years.

I put my wets above my hives. My bees clean them off amazingly.
I take those cleaned combs and scrape off all propolis and burr comb. I clean and prepare them for next season. I give a couple of squirts of BT on each side of each frame and I let them dry.
I have some twelve inch high hive stands in my cellar. Keeps them off the floor. It's a clean dry cellar.
I put a corrugated plastic "election sign" on each hive stand.
I put a box of cleaned frames on top of that sign. It makes a good seal.
I sprinkle some (a handfull. not much at all) para-dichlorobenzene (Para Moth) on the frame tops. I take a couple of frames ou, and simply place the open can of crystals in the slots. The crystals don't entirely sublime over six months. I must have tight seals between boxes. Use tape if you must.
I continue to stack my other frames and boxes up until there is no more room.
I place another election sign, or an outer cover, on the top.

Works for me.  I DO AIR THE COMB OUT in the Spring a few days before putting them with bees. The crystals appear to have no bad effects on my bees.

Sal.

[eltalia]

Xentari-   Bacillus thuringiensis, subsp. aizawai,

... not that one SC-B, mine, linked to below ;-)

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=50493.msg441775#msg441775
on: August 12, 2017, 09:31:27 pm


Cheers.


Bill

[tjc1]

I don't have a lot to store, so this may not be suitable for some, I put my fames to be stored in a freezer for at least 2 days more when I can.  Then I put them in plastic containers with a lid that fits fairly tight.  So far haven't had any problems doing this. I use tote bins from Lowes, they are black with yellow lids.  Don't remember how many frames will fit, that also is different on what size frames you use.  Frames I store are mediums and shallow mostly.  I think I get about 25 or so per bin.

Good luck to you and your bees,

Joe D

I do the same, but store the frames about 12 to a bag in heavy compactor trash bags and store them with the frames sitting on their ends.

[sc-bee]

As I understand it, BT doesn't stop the moth, just the larva after they have eaten too much.

Correct but chemical free and they don't have to eat much...

[sc-bee]

Xentari-   Bacillus thuringiensis, subsp. aizawai,

... not that one SC-B, mine, linked to below ;-)

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=50493.msg441775#msg441775
on: August 12, 2017, 09:31:27 pm


Cheers.


Bill

By the time you pay for the plastic, the tape, and whatever it takes to get the gas and tanks and bladders etc. etc and  the PIA.... just spray with bt and move on ;-) honestly I quit reading it........... maybe I will go back and change my mind and read but really sounded like a pain from where I stopped.

And from what I read in the thread you have not used it ... Just read about it.... correct ? ;-)

[MikeyN.C.]

I thought it says on para moth label not for use on honey supers ?

[sc-bee]

I thought it says on para moth label not for use on honey supers ?

Yes that is what it is for... use on extracted frames.... not for storage of frames with honey for human consumption...

[eltalia]

errrrm... just some "straight forward [1]" frank/candid rebuttal(?)follows;

"just spray with bt and move on"
Nope.
The product is designed for treating a living plant, capable of renewing itself.
Stored drawn frames do not rebuild themselves. Get enough WM in the zone and there
will be tears.

"honestly I quit reading it."
.. and right there is the true value of your comments now.

"And from what I read in the thread you have not used
it ... Just read about it.... correct ? ;-)"
Nope.
As just one of a few disciplines I bee master of these systems have been
designed/installed/maintained by yours truly over quite some years.
The methodology layed out is merely an adaptation of that work... freely given I add.
All the assumptions you make are addressed in that post of mine, links supplied (more reading).

"By the time you pay for the plastic, the tape, and
whatever it takes to get the gas and tanks... "
The setup laid out was for large quantities of stores over a likely commercial use - follow the
thread to get context. As many NH locations have the ultimate WM control sitting right under
their nose (metaphorical) the cost per year would be minimalistic compared to the status quo.
Switching the method to use in a hobbyist's apiary could be as simple as a small disposable
cylinder and a stopwatch.

Do the maths, I have... inert gas bombs over BT - and the host of other chemical alternatives
has to be a better cost deal and way more effective over wintering than the work required to
keep treating stacks in zones where the natural barrier for WM control is not in place.
Factor in the intended use of BT and the cost - it will have a shelf life - and whilst closer to
"organic" than anything else used, incuding electrically reliant alternatives, inert gas
(dry nitrogen) has to come out in front.

But new concepts carry a natural resistance in a closed loop bee management world.. as
recently noted by more than yours truly :-/

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/natural-guard-caterpillar-killer-spray-with-bt-p-1566.html
~$20 a pint does 30gallons. Apply whenever.

Cheers.

Bill

--
[1]  SC-B on the chore of reading;
"I am no newbee and sometimes a straight forward answer without
trying to impress..... is impressive"

[sc-bee]

"just spray with bt and move on"
Nope.
The product is designed for treating a living plant, capable of renewing itself.
Stored drawn frames do not rebuild themselves. Get enough WM in the zone and there
will be tears.
Really glad you told me that 

"honestly I quit reading it."
.. and right there is the true value of your comments now.

I read enough to know it was not a viable solution for the small keeper like me and the OP so why read any futher

just some "straight forward " frank/candid rebuttal follows

.. and right there is the true value of your comments now.
Exactly how I feel about most you post and your arrogance .... Just a frank- candid- rebuttal

Do the maths, I have... inert gas bombs over BT - and the host of other chemical alternatives
has to be a better cost deal and way more effective over wintering than the work required to
keep treating stacks in zones where the natural barrier for WM control is not in place.

Why don't you honestly ask how many folk here on this forum run enough hives for your... whatever it is vs JUST SPRAYING WITH bt

But new concepts carry a natural resistance in a closed loop bee management world.. as
recently noted by more than yours truly :-/

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/natural-guard-caterpillar-killer-spray-with-bt-p-1566.html
~$20 a pint does 30gallons. Apply whenever

Not sure why you posted this... not even the right strain of bt?

[1]  SC-B on the chore of reading;

Not a chore if I don't want it too be... I just read enough to know I needed to discard for my and most folks use. But I am not making the decision for them... they can. But of course I could have under read the OP post. He may be sitting in Middle Georgia with 2000 haves and needs to get tanks and gas and bubblers etc. Oh wait a minute he did not ask the best for him he ask for the best method.... I get it 

No sorry. I am wrong again... he did say "what can I do"

"I am no newbee and sometimes a straight forward answer without
trying to impress..... is impressive"

Never said you were a newbee and neither am I... but I don't thump my chest either unlike some Oh and by the way I am not new to the forum either. Iv'e seen the like's come and go

sometimes a straight forward answer without trying to impress..... is impressive


Well I think I have been about as straight forward as I can get. Unlike the smoke and screens, and coy answers/comments some blow  

Well Tally-Ho-- Cheers--Good Day Mate or whatever it is YA"LL  say  Happy Beekeeping....

errrrm... just some "straight forward [1]" frank/candid rebuttal(?)follows;
[1]  SC-B on the chore of reading;
"I am no newbee and sometimes a straight forward answer without
trying to impress..... is impressive"

I have not figured out all this foot note stuff... but it is impressive ROTFLMAO 

[MikeyN.C.]

Here in the southeast  U.S. almost all use the rite strain of Bt with great success,   and some farmers will give you a couple of pounds.

[Spur9]

Here in the southeast  U.S. almost all use the rite strain of Bt with great success,   and some farmers will give you a couple of pounds.

I agree.

BTa strain that I bought off Amazon was the Xentari brand.  Made sure that I purchased an unexpired lot number.  I think if stored in a dry place, it will last at least a year.  I bought a pound bag and given that the directions call for mixing 3-4 ounces (maybe teaspoons - I forget) per gallon of water, a pound bag will treat a lot of frames.  I usually can treat 100-120 medium frames with a gallon of mix.

I store mine in a garage with 1 window after treatment.  If a moth decides to lay eggs on a frame, then after hatching, the larva take one bite of wax and die.  So there is no significant damage to the comb.

I have never tried paramoth.   If I had less than 20 supers to store, then I'd probably go that route.

If u have beekeeping friends, it would be economical to go in together and buy a bag to share.

[GSF]

I use paramoth. First I put a piece of plywood on a pallet, then a good many news paper pages(non colored), on the plywood, then I start to stack. Every 2nd super I put paramoth on 2 cut up 3x5 cards in alternating corners of the supers. When I get to the top it's paramoth, newspaper, plywood, and a weight. The instructions says it kills moths, larva, and eggs. To this date I have no reason to doubt it either. On more than one occasion I have place moth larva infested combs in the mix just to find dead larva later.

[sc-bee]

BTa strain that I bought off Amazon was the Xentari brand.
Xentari is about the only brand name you are going to find. The other out there I will not mention. so as not to confuse is made bk the same company Valent. but the strength is different


 Made sure that I purchased an unexpired lot number.
Yes some have gotten expired lots from Amazon



 I think if stored in a dry place, it will last at least a year.
Company states two years in an area not of high heat


 I bought a pound bag and given that the directions call for mixing 3-4 ounces (maybe teaspoons - I forget) per gallon of water,
4tsp is the dose most folks use. I know of folks that use 1tsp with success. But if you can use  it all before expiration why skimp?


 a pound bag will treat a lot of frames.  I usually can treat 100-120 medium frames with a gallon of mix.
About what I get... let them dry in the sun to prevent molding

 
If u have beekeeping friends, it would be economical to go in together and buy a bag to share.
Agreed

[Fishing-Nut]

How about keeping them in the house? I have stored a bunch in the house and haven't had any issues. Somebody told me that the moths will still get to them. I haven't seen this at all. Seems a little far fetched to me.