Dead/dying bees. Nosema on inner cover

[salvo]

Hi Folks,

A friend, 2017 newbee,  called me, a 2011 newbee, to look at one of his two hives. Pile of dead bees on the ground in front. A dozen dead and dying bees on top of the inner cover. Maybe about twenty dead and dying bees inside, on bottom board. Dying bees were trembling, obviously in spasms prior to death. Nosema (diarrhea) stains on inner cover. No noticeable dead bees in the other hive,... but nosema stains on inner cover.

Southeast Massachusetts. Cranberry bogs. Rural setting. He said his neighbors know of his bees, they don't use pesticides. There ARE small vegetable gardens around. IDK. I live a half mile away. Shared forage area. My bees are fine.

It was his stronger hive. Now knocked back. However, still lots of bees, capped brood and larvae in hive. We saw the queen. Active and recently laying. Too many bees and too many frames of brood to identify and pull best frames and queen out to a new, clean nuc.

Thoughts??? What to do? I have fumagillin. Never used it. Never had to. Could it help? Could it hurt?

Sal

[eltalia]

Reads to m as you having done what is the prudent way to go, Sal.
Wait it out now, keeping an eye on the uncapped brood when next inspecting.

Cheers.

Bill

[GSF]

I think one cause of nosema is too much moisture. This year seems like it would be supportive of that around here.

[Michael Bush]

I'm not sure what "nosema stains" are.  I guess you mean feces.  Trembling bees with dysentery sounds more likely tracheal mites than Nosema.  Mostly the bees are all resistant now, but that doesn't mean that sometimes a colony doesn't have a weakness for them.  To test for Nosema, get a microscope and field strip some bees and examine the contents of their guts.  Also look for white opaque guts as opposed to healthy translucent guts.

Most of the Nosema is now Nosema cerana and the latest research says that fumidil will make it worse.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Mr. Salvo, greetings.  I am NOT going to advise you to treat or not to treat with fumigallin.  That decision is up to you.  However, fumigallin is probably more toxic, much more toxic than you realize.  You should google independent (not mfg) toxic reports on this product and see for yourself.  Then decide if you wish to treat with this product.  Hope the bees recover.
Blessings

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Fumigallin, MSDS: catergory 4 acute toxin.

https://www.caymanchem.com/msdss/11332m.pdf

[salvo]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the advice. No fumagillin.

Massachusetts has a State Bee Inspector. We're going to call her office Monday. I've heard that she is pretty good. Takes her job seriously. She, or her minions (Yes, Kim. It's that guy.) (I bet she reads this forum.) will likely come to collect samples. I hear they will only take samples collected by themselves.

I saw a report by her department today. The tests indicated a patchwork of maladies including European Foulbrood. The two hives looked good to me. Neither suffered in the two months since the test. The beek was pulling good looking frames of capped honey. I guess it does go to show that disease is ever present, but an otherwise strong hive can cope.

Anyway, my pal is going to put a grease patty in his hive. It apparently can't hurt. Menthol has issues.

Thanks again.

Sal 

[eltalia]

What I take away from this thread Sal, is how lucky you guys are to have a cooperative and "kindly"
inspection service.
For us in Aussie - and many anecdotals to back the statement - what inspectors we do have are
more of the "parking meter cop" type. One-eyed bureaucrats reading off an A4 song-sheet, a box
of redheads (zippo lighters) in their pocket being fondled as they deliver their verdict.
Testing costs money in their book so "looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - it IS a duck" applies
more often then not. They are the last people one would call into an apiary - and a lot of other
places on a property/block/ranch also.
A good reason to remain anonymous in forums - as other savvy Aussies might well agree.

Cheers.

Bill

[BeeMaster2]

Here in Florida, I as well as most beekeepers are on a first name basis with our inspectors and will call them if there are problems. They are one of the few government employees that are really there to help us. I not only know the inspectors but their boss and his boss. They often come out to our club meetings and provide valuable information.
Jim

[rober]

a couple of years I sent some samples to the usda. one of the lab guys told me that hives treated fumigillin showed a marked decrease in nosema initially but within 2-3 weeks there was a rebound effect & it came back twice as bad. there's a newer treatment out but I've not tried it. it's called nosevit. I've been trying but so far have not gotten an answer as to how many spores are too many.

[sc-bee]

Here in Florida, I as well as most beekeepers are on a first name basis with our inspectors and will call them if there are problems. They are one of the few government employees that are really there to help us. I not only know the inspectors but their boss and his boss. They often come out to our club meetings and provide valuable information.
Jim

And you are BLESSED with ELLIS...wish SC could have matched the offer...

[BeeMaster2]

Here in Florida, I as well as most beekeepers are on a first name basis with our inspectors and will call them if there are problems. They are one of the few government employees that are really there to help us. I not only know the inspectors but their boss and his boss. They often come out to our club meetings and provide valuable information.
Jim

And you are BLESSED with ELLIS...wish SC could have matched the offer...

I agree but he isn't part of the government/inspectors.
Jamie Ellis is in charge of the bee college at UF. He is a top notch speaker with a ton of information. He also comes out to all of our clubs and does speaches he's as well as encourage his students to do the same. He was speaking at the Jacksonxille bee club as well as the Nassau Bee club within the last 60 days.
Jim