MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION > THE CONSTITUTION
GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
gww:
iddee
--- Quote ---The new country is likely to be hard, but that may well still be an improvement. The new country has no reason to shower you with free gifts when you have done nothing to earn them.
--- End quote ---
When talking of no garrantee of happyness but a garrantee of the right to pursue it, that should be wether you are an immigrant or born here. True history how ever has people that are already here making laws to stop an immigrant from those oppertunities. To invite poeple in and then make them differrent then the poeple that are here can't be correct. Look at the laws that were made against the chineese when they were invited to do the dirty work cause their labor was needed. Every group (not just chineese) were treated in the same fasion. They came cause for some it was better then where they where. And they did the work to better themselves just like when you are born here you should have to do. But it is hard to justifie that it is a good humanitarian thing that sevices be provided for things that are beyond an unlucky individuals control and that helping them is a good thing for sociaty but not if didn't live here for 200 years. If a case can be made that it is the humane thing to do, then it would be a humane thing and not base only humane depending on who you are. Nobody says you should get things that poeple who are here already don't get but if you come here for opertunity and people want you here and let you in, then your opertunity should be the same as the comunity that you live in. It should not be the goal to make two communities, the haves and the have nots. If that were the case, we could have just kept slavery and we wouldn't need immigrants.
I may be a bit radical in my presentation style cause I have a hard time communicating in writing what I am trying to say. I am not trying to start a war of words cause I am not good enough at that to have a chance. I am more trying to present a veiw of general fairness. What is fair for one should be fair for all based on each individuals actions and not based on where you are born.
Just my thoughts
gww
Kathyp:
I wrote something on this not to long ago, and I'll try to give the RD version here. :wink:
no one has the right to illegally enter this country or any other. The moment you have done that, you have broken the law. Why would we want people here who have no regard for the law?
However.....we have many people in this country who have been here years, been productive, raised families, and after their first law breaking of entering illegally, have been crime free. It is not practical and probably not desirable, to round those folks up and send them back home. We do not need to have amnesty, but we do need to address this issue with some kind of practical plan.
We need to end both citizenship by birth, and chain immigration.
This last, I think, is the most important. The immigrants we take now, even legally, are not the same as my great grandmother with her one suite case and dreams of a better life. When she came over, she was probably 14 although the ships manifest said 16. She told the story of stepping off the boat and being so afraid because she had little money and no job or place to stay. She and her sister went to work in the clothing factories in Chicago, which was their destination (another story) and managed to survive and eventually, thrive.
What they did can't even be done today. The place they rented would not be fit for habitation now, and the rents reflect the regulations. As minors, they could not work as they did due to regulations.
Even if it could be done, we have a different breed of immigrant now. Most come from failed socialist and dictator run countries. They are not looking for freedom from oppression or a chance to succeed. They are looking for successful socialism. For the moment, they find it here. They step off the boat and are handed every kind of aid package you can imagine. They don't have to learn the language, and interpreter is provided. They don't have to earn a living, they get a welfare package and food stamps. Unless they decide to become citizens, and many don't, they don't have to learn the constitution, or any history.
Many of our "immigrants" are refugees that tend to clump together. They do not, and do not intend to, integrate into American society. We have a Latino movement particularly in the SW that thinks they should own that part of the country because it was "taken from them". Who would have thought we'd stand for the flag of another country being paraded through our streets by a bunch of thug law breakers?
To those who say we need an immigrant work force, fine, then have a program that brings in what we need. To those who say we need to share what we have with the rest of the world, fine, then let them come experience our right to succeed or fail, without sucking off the ever shrinking number of people trying to support the welfare class.
Eric Bosworth:
Kathy,
I have to say that your post was great Your grandmothers experience was very good at explaining the unbelievable truth about sweatshops.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/O2sW2wt3nLU
My father talks about when he was a kid working for a potato farmer. When they started enacting all sorts of child labor laws it wasn't the farmer that was hurt it was the kids working for him that suffered. That leads very well into minimum wage hurting the very workers it is designed to help...
https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ct1Moeaa-W8
What Anthony Davies does not say in that video is that there are many jobs that do not require a college education. Without a minimum wage an employer can hire somebody directly out of high school and train them to do the job they need for very low wages. Once the employee has been trained the employer can either pay higher wages or the employee can work for a competitor for higher wages. Either way minimum wage hurt the employee because they now have a skill and didn't go into serious college debt to get it.
All of this goes back to immigration.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/NtRmS7q9DlM
OldMech:
--- Quote from: iddee on May 10, 2015, 10:33:45 am ---Old mech, think "illegal immigrants". I hate the first half, whether it includes the second half or not. Illegals, whether immigrants, or natural born thieves, I have no room for them.
I agree immigration should be easier, but with the same government benefits our forefathers had. NONE, but the freedom to pursue. Many of our ancestors starved and froze, that is the price to pay for immigration. The right to pursue, not a guaranteed life on easy street.
gww, to pack and leave your birth country, things must have been very bad. The new country is likely to be hard, but that may well still be an improvement. The new country has no reason to shower you with free gifts when you have done nothing to earn them.
--- End quote ---
I agree completely.. Illegal means they need removed.. Even up here in the midwest we have them... A nearby hog processing plant... It was "announced" that they (workers) would all be checked by local authorities as part of a county wide crack down... the plant had to close two shifts because none of the workers showed up.... How is it possible THAT MANY illegal immigrants are this far into the US without being caught and deported?
As I said, I dont care where your from. If your here legally and proud to be an American, I'll stand with you. If your here illegally, I dont CARE if you have been here ten years and have a family here, then you need deported, along with the family.. those are chances YOU took when you came here illegally. But the child was BORN here! TO an illegal parrent, which makes them illegal as well. Life is not fair. It never has been, and never will be. Fair is a myth spoken of in children's stories, not real life.
If you have a job, are working, making a living and supporting your family.. then fill out the paperwork, take the test, and become a citizen in good standing.
I do support re structuring the process of citizenship. It should not be impossible to come here...
As far as having jobs when they DO come here... they do, because they are willing to work.. Even my OWN children looked at me like I was an idiot when I said WalMart and McDonalds are hiring...
"I will never degrade myself to working there!"
"You would rather degrade yourself by digging through the McDonalds dumpster to find food to eat?"
They both learned this lesson the hard way.
There are jobs if your not to proud to do them. There would be more jobs if the illegals were sent back across the border. If the company that hired them was held accountable, the opportunity would no longer be there, and less would come here, and cause the problems they do..
As Iddee said.. in the town that plant is in.. the crime rate has skyrocketed SO MUCH that the housing market is now DEAD and people are moving AWAY from that town as fast as they can. I can take you into a dozen stores in that town, where the owners/workers do not speak english, and they have no intention of learning it..
As far as I am concerned, a Bus should pull up, and the whole lot of them loaded up and hauled back across the border.. this isn't Mexico.. if you are so proud of the flag you have hanging in your front window of your store, and the language you speak, then why are you here? Take that pride and go back where it means something.
gww:
As far as jobs go, I would shovel poop or clean toilets and not be imbarressed. As far as companys hiring illiegals, why is it always the person that is doing the work for some one who always had to suffer. If they put a couple of the company guys in jail then there wouldn't be the draw for all the illiegals to come and be disrupted later. In stead the company busses them up and the goverment busses them back and the company busses new ones up. The immigates that are being bussed up are working and not comming for free things that america gives them. If they companys didn't promote this and the american poeple didn't look the other way cause they like cheep chicken, there might not be as many people to be deported.
gww
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