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Author Topic: Queenless hive, trying new approach.  (Read 5005 times)

Offline van from Arkansas

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Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« on: July 20, 2019, 03:49:18 pm »
I have one hive that is queenless.  This hive, 5 frame nuc, was created from remains, 4 deep frames of a queen castle that was time to be dismantled.  So what to do with this queenless hive created about a week ago.

1.  I could newspaper combine.
2.  Provide a frame of eggs and young larva and let the bees make their own queen.
3.  Provide grafted larva for queen production.

Well, I tell ya, I did #2 and #3.

The bees made 2 queen cells from a frame of young larva.  Then I added a total of 6, six grafted larva and the bees accepted 5.  Time will tell if all 5 are made into capped queen cells.

This hive is not strong, remains of a queen castle, so I added a frame of pollen and bee bread.

I have never used an incidental queenless hive to raise queens.  This is all new territory to me.  I have read, studied, been told: raising queens takes lots of resources so when queen rearing I have always provided resources to the max: many nurse bees and lots of food.

For newbies: My queen castle consists of a 10 frame deep hive body that has sealed 4 compartments, each compartment with it own entrance.  Each compartment holds 2 deep frames, bees, and a virgin queen to make natural mating flights.  Once the queen is mated and laying she is ready for her own hive.
Blessings
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2019, 03:57:21 pm »


Showing 2 of 4 separated entrances.
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2019, 03:57:53 pm »


I placed 2 frames into 2 middle compartments for viewing.
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2019, 03:58:34 pm »

Top boards keep the compartments sealed when the lid is removed.  This way there is no mixing of bees as I remove only one top board at a time.
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 03:59:20 pm »


Complete with lid now on the sealed compartments.
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Nock

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2019, 05:35:01 pm »
That?s interesting. I?ll have to try that someday
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2019, 06:25:57 pm »
Van,
What is the success ratio with your queen castle?
I have built 2 different types with 0 success. One was a 3 hive, 3 deep frame castle and the other is a 4 medium 1/2 frames making a 4 hive castle.
Jim Altmiller
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Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2019, 07:47:37 pm »
Similar results as sawduster with multi compartment queen castles.
 
The castles work great once a queen is mated and she needs a place to figure out her equipment and get a brood pattern established. It is basically a luxury queen bank.  Queens an their support staff complete with workout gym (combs to lay).

I have not had much luck with castles for getting the queens mated.  For mating, higher success in having queens in separate boxes.
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When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2019, 08:36:31 pm »
Quote from: sawdstmakr on July 20, 2019, 06:25:57 pm
Van,
What is the success ratio with your queen castle?
I have built 2 different types with 0 success. One was a 3 hive, 3 deep frame castle and the other is a 4 medium 1/2 frames making a 4 hive castle.
Jim Altmiller

Jim, in 2018 I had 50 percent success.  This year was 75%.  Only takes one queen to make the difference between 50 verses 75 percent.  This year, I have noticed very few robber flies, last year was horrible for robber flies.  That is in 2018 there were lots of robber flies, most I have ever seen so I was pleased with 50% success.  A honey bee has no chance against these predators know as robber flies: so fast and deadly.
Van
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2019, 08:49:48 pm »
Quote from: TheHoneyPump on July 20, 2019, 07:47:37 pm
Similar results as sawduster with multi compartment queen castles.
 
The castles work great once a queen is mated and she needs a place to figure out her equipment and get a brood pattern established. It is basically a luxury queen bank.  Queens an their support staff complete with workout gym (combs to lay).

I have not had much luck with castles for getting the queens mated.  For mating, higher success in having queens in separate boxes.

Luxury queen condo lol.
HO, can I guess your queens are getting lost on return flight to a castle, therefore individual boxes are better??  How do you maintain so many individual boxes?  My understanding is you are a mega queen breeder.  How many queens do you raise at a time?  I graft about 16 larva at a time, a whole lot fewer than the mega breeders.
Van
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2019, 08:54:01 pm »
Robber fly as mentioned in reply #8, with yellow jacket, deadly to honeybees.


Van
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 09:06:57 pm by van from Arkansas »
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Nock

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2019, 12:12:56 am »
I?ve seen them before. And most times with something. Didn?t know what they where.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2019, 08:21:22 am »
Van,
I have robber  flies here also. I have found them holding onto one of my bees but I have only seen 3 of them total. The last one I saw was in my Breese way and it was eating a horse fly. 🤗

Last year I went up to Georgia to get hay. On the way I saw a queen breeder placing small mating boxes on the ground. They were about a 6 inch cube box and they were in a almost perfect grid pattern that was about 40 by 40 or more. That is 1600 mating boxes. At $20 a queen, that is $32000 dollars worth of queens if they all made it. Pretty impressed.
Jim Altmiller
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2019, 04:38:18 pm »
We have robber flies around here that mimic bumble bees very convincingly.  There is one that hangs around at the side of our house regularly, and it is huge.  I don't have much trouble with them and my bees, but they are quite a formidable predator insect.  :cool:

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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2019, 03:53:55 pm »
Follow up:  see first post,,,, making queens cells from left over bees.

The bees did make and finish two capped queen cells.  However, they are small queen cells, I am not impressed as of this date 7/27/19.  Next week the queens should hatch, no guarantees at this point and we will see if the queens are worthy.
Blessings
Van
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2019, 10:32:12 pm »
Quote from: van from Arkansas on July 27, 2019, 03:53:55 pm
Follow up:  see first post,,,, making queens cells from left over bees.

The bees did make and finish two capped queen cells.  However, they are small queen cells, I am not impressed as of this date 7/27/19.  Next week the queens should hatch, no guarantees at this point and we will see if the queens are worthy.
Blessings
Van

Good luck 🍀 Let is know.
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14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2019, 10:35:33 pm »
Quote from: sawdstmakr on July 21, 2019, 08:21:22 am
Van,
I have robber  flies here also. I have found them holding onto one of my bees but I have only seen 3 of them total. The last one I saw was in my Breese way and it was eating a horse fly. 🤗

Last year I went up to Georgia to get hay. On the way I saw a queen breeder placing small mating boxes on the ground. They were about a 6 inch cube box and they were in a almost perfect grid pattern that was about 40 by 40 or more. That is 1600 mating boxes. At $20 a queen, that is $32000 dollars worth of queens if they all made it. Pretty impressed.
Jim Altmiller

Jim that is impressive. I would like to see a syrup like that. I don?t know of a breeder in my area that is of that scale.  Sounds like this fellow knows his stuff. Did you get his name?
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2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2019, 02:26:31 pm »
No. We did not stop. We were hauling a 40 foot trailer loaded with 34-1000 pound rolls of hay.
Jim Altmiller
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Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2019, 01:09:31 pm »
A queen hatched 7/28, destroyed her sisters in the other queen cells.  I laid eyes on the virgin queen this day.  Now to see if she returns from a mating flight.

Next inspection for this hive is two weeks, mid August, and hopefully I will see eggs and larva.  So far so good.
Van
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I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Queenless hive, trying new approach.
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2019, 09:43:30 pm »
Quote from: van from Arkansas on July 29, 2019, 01:09:31 pm
A queen hatched 7/28, destroyed her sisters in the other queen cells.  I laid eyes on the virgin queen this day.  Now to see if she returns from a mating flight.

Next inspection for this hive is two weeks, mid August, and hopefully I will see eggs and larva.  So far so good.
Van

Fingers crossed 🤞🏻 for you Sir.
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2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
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