Winter insulation/ventilation

[Kev]

Hi folks,
I'm interested to know how y'all insulate your hives for winter, I'm especially interested in those of you who are using polystyrene hives. I have folks tell me to put an empty super filled with fiberglass insulation in on the top. Supposedly that will help slow the air movement but still allow moisture to escape.

So, who's doing what for insulation/ventilation?

Kev

[Finsky]

.
I have finger size upper entrance in front wall. There respiration vapour comes out.

And when you have solid bottom board, it it very usefull to have one inch hole+screen in back corners in bottom.

I have 10 mm wooden boards as inner cover + 5-7 mm foam plastic mattress as insulation ( recycled)

The insulation of inner cover should be better than in walls. It it is worse, water vapour condensates onto inner cover qand drops to bees' neck.

When walls have worse insulation, tehy condensates tah vapour and water goes to bottom of hive.

Hive should slan a bit forwards that water comes out from hive.

So it has gone 20 years with poly hives.
.

[Kirk-o]

No need here in L A
kirk-o

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#topentrance

[IndianaBrown]

I am wintering for the first time.  I am using polystyrene hives.  I left my bottom screens open and my (empty) top feeders on.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=6546.0

[Finsky]

and my (empty) top feeders on.

That makes no sence  :-P

[IndianaBrown]

Finsky, we have been over this and over this before.  It is working.  End of story.

[Finsky]

Finsky, we have been over this and over this before.  It is working.  End of story.

Still, makes no sence. If you write a beekeeping book, that is your recommendation?
But it is all the same. 80% of beekeepers' goings have no sence. In this forum about 95%  8-)

[Kev]

Sorry for posting what had been discussed pretty thoroughly.

Regarding the screened bottom board. A more experienced beekeeper 'round here uses SBBs in wood hives. He puts a specially cut piece of pegboard over the SBB during the winter to choke the ventilation down substantially.

So Finsky, you use an inner cover with your poly hives?

kev

[buzzbee]

This is a line from Finskys reply:
I have 10 mm wooden boards as inner cover + 5-7 mm foam plastic mattress as insulation ( recycled) :)

[Michael Bush]

>He puts a specially cut piece of pegboard over the SBB during the winter to choke the ventilation down substantially.

There's a brilliant idea.  A pegboard would allow some very controlled ventilation.

[Finsky]

I have folks tell me to put an empty super filled with fiberglass insulation in on the top.

Fiberglass is quite awfull stuff because you handle near human food tsuffs. I think that bees like glass fiber either.

Stone wool is another stuff, which is quite awfull.  You handle it with sugar sticky hand and it dust stucks into fingers. It is not good near food stuffs too. I have tried it.

In my country many use porous cellusose fiber boards. They soak moisture and moves it outside.  Bees bite them in pieces and fibers can be seen in combs. Thin wood board box lasts tens of years as inner cover. It is easy to clean and sterilize with gas flame.

[Michael Bush]

>I'm interested to know how y'all insulate your hives for winter

The only insulation I use is styrofoam on top of the lid.

[Kev]

There's a brilliant idea.  A pegboard would allow some very controlled ventilation.

I thought it was pretty good, too. Don't know how it will hold up to any moisture.

Finsky, You're right; fiberglass is pretty nasty and rock wool is worse. I wonder if you put a screen on the bottom of a super, filled it up with styrofoam packing peanuts, and put that on time if it would do any good. They're highly insulating, and there might be enough space around them for the moisture to migrate.

Tyvek is vapor permeable anyone tried using that?

Have to admit, though, I don't like the idea of experimenting on the bees. They suffer for the mistakes.

kev

[Finsky]

Have to admit, though, I don't like the idea of experimenting on the bees. They suffer for the mistakes.

That is what I mean.  One year, long ago I had one box hives over winter. 

* I put plastic over one hive but hive has plenty of air under snow cover. It had died totally in early winte like I saw from mold.

* Some hives were dead too, - totally.

* Some were very good alive. I wondered what is the difference. I saw that those which were alive, they had upper entrance.

I have had in many cases hard shool.  But it seems that every one want to go via hard shool too.

I have tried many insulating materials during years. One thing is that mice like to make nest in there. It is nice odor there in spring. Mice are one reason why I do not use some materials.  Mice loved stone wool.

***************
Now things go fine. I have dead bees on bottom board  1-2 handfull. 

Still nosema tease some hives every winter.  It makes bigger troubles. It spoils hives even if it does not kill them totally.

[Mici]

i use ordinary wool, actually it's insulation wool, it's preped with borium (i think) salt, so it's inhabitable. but, have in mind i don't keep in LR, oh...and this is the first year of my keeping and wintering the bees.

[2-Wheeler]

This is my first year wintering our first hive. We mostly followed "the book" with traditional wooden frames, no insulation, SBB with solid bottom board installed. We did however add top entrance/ventilation based on recommendations from this site.

So far they seem to have survived a very bad winter just fine. The only casualty has been some cracks opened up between the two deeps, due to warping wood I suppose. The frames were "premium" grade wood and were primed and painted on the outside only. 

I also like the sound of using the peg-board below the SBB, in place of the solid bottom board. We should try to remember to try that next winter. Another change I will probably make next year is to add some Solid Styrofoam insulation inside the telescoping cover.

Our coldest temps reached -23F this winter with wind-chills around -30F. That sounds awful cold to me, but of all the hives I've seen in this area, I've never seen any with external wrapping or external insulation.

[Kev]

* I put plastic over one hive but hive has plenty of air under snow cover. It had died totally in early winte like I saw from mold.

I'm not clear what you mean here: did you put a sheet of plastic over them, almost like greenhouse plastic?

I have had in many cases hard shool.  But it seems that every one want to go via hard shool too.

Yeah, I've been to that school sometimes. BUT, I have the sort of belief that there's always a better way. You just have to find it. Not sure I'm willing to risk my hives in the search for it, though.

kev