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Author Topic: Best time to graft, am or pm  (Read 5265 times)

Offline stanisr

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Best time to graft, am or pm
« on: July 25, 2014, 12:02:55 am »
I have a small operation and plan on expanding it next spring, so I am learning to graft. My question is are the grafts more successful if done in the morning or in the evening?
Rick

Offline OldMech

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2014, 12:06:45 am »
I dont think it matters. Warmer is better. Less chance of the larvae getting chilled if its 100 degrees out and HUMID.
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Online BeeMaster2

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2014, 12:51:26 pm »
I dont think it matters. Warmer is better. Less chance of the larvae getting chilled if its 100 degrees out and HUMID.

Then you would think it would work real well here in N FL.   :)
 11:45 AM: 90.1 degrees, 65%, heat index 103. :( 

Jim

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2014, 10:43:26 pm »
When it's not too hot or too windy...

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Offline OldMech

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2014, 03:30:50 pm »
wait.. we talking about for the larvae or the person grafting?   :-D
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2014, 08:16:07 pm »
Yes
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Offline stanisr

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2014, 01:49:12 am »
My question to you experts out there is, morning or evening grafts result in more queens?
Rick

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2014, 08:21:51 am »
My question to you experts out there is, morning or evening grafts result in more queens?
What we are saying is that the time of day not a factor except how it affects you and how good of a job you do and control the grafting conditions. Moisture is very important as well as technique and selecting the right age of the larvae.
Jim

Offline stanisr

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2014, 09:56:39 am »
Thanks, I appreciate the help very much. Due to my day job I can only graft of an evening. I was worried that this may hinder my results. I need the graft on Thursday so I can make up nucs on Saturday and put cells in on Sunday.
Thanks
Rick

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2014, 12:14:42 pm »
>My question to you experts out there is, morning or evening grafts result in more queens?

All things being equal (temperatures, wind etc.) it will make no difference, but if it's 80 F at 10 am and 100 F at 2 pm, the 10 am ones will probably do better.  If the wind was howling at 10 am and calm at 2 pm the 2 pm ones may do better.  Wind will quickly dry out larvae.  Heat can kill larvae if they get over 93 F.
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Offline capt44

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2014, 12:51:15 am »
I keep a wet towel over the cell bars.
The other frames and foundation with brood I keep in the incubator at 72% humidity.
I wet graft and as soon as I have a larva grafted to a cell I cover it with the damp towel.
As soon as I get a cell bar completed I quickly put the cell bar in a starter hive.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline stanisr

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2014, 08:07:10 pm »
I am getting very frustrated trying to graft. I have attempted three graphs non-of which have been successful. I have 15 cell cups on the starter frame. I have watched videos and read everything available. Any help would be appreciated greatly. I created a cell builder colony using a nuc and putting fresh brood in it weekly. I read where if you put a frame of eggs and larva in the nuc a day before you graft the bees will more readily accept the cells.  :?
Rick

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2014, 10:29:43 pm »
The number one secret to getting cells started is a cell starter that is overflowing with bees.  That means you either shake them into a confined swarm box or you compress a hive.  To compress a hive you remove all the supers, then remove any empty comb and if that doesn't push them to where there is not enough room for all the bees, then remove another box, shaking all the bees back into the hive and giving that box to another strong hive.  Queenless is the next best thing.  A crowded queenless hive works well.  The other issue is a flow.  Queen rearing always works best in a flow...
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Offline TwoHoneys

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2014, 09:39:07 pm »
Micheal,

Regarding your crowded cell starter...do you confine the bees to the box, or do you let them fly?

-Liz
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2014, 09:46:39 am »
>Regarding your crowded cell starter...do you confine the bees to the box, or do you let them fly?

Either way it needs to be overflowing with bees.  The two methods I have done are the confined swarm box:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesalleymethod.htm#swarming_box
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#The Starter Hive
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearingsimplified.htm#TheSwarmBox

Or simply a strong, compressed (removing boxes and shaking bees down until they are crowded) queenless hive. (usually find the queen first, put her with the brood she is on and a frame of honey in a two frame nuc for later).

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm#cellstarter

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Offline Dave360

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Re: Best time to graft, am or pm
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2014, 10:30:07 pm »
to increase your acceptance put cups in hive day bf graft spray sugar water in them let bees clean use more than 15 cups  a medium frame with 2 rails of cups will be 40 so even with only 25 percent take you have 10 also you must feed I use cloak board so I use division board feeder and fill every day with 1 to one till cells are caped I also put part of a pollen sub pattie in to make sure protein is available

David