Botulism and honey

[azzkell]

Hi all. Does anyone have info on why or how the bacteria that causes Botulism survives in honey?
Thanks
Aaron

[Michael Bush]

Botulism makes spores.  The spores require higher than 240 F to kill them.  They are everywhere.  In dirt.  In any raw food.  There are no more of them in honey than any other raw food.

[azzkell]

Thanks Michael.
Was curious how it manages to survive in honey, hydroscopic acidic environment void of air. Have a friend who loves honey and asked the question as he has a young child.  Got me puzzled.

[Michael Bush]

>Was curious how it manages to survive in honey, hydroscopic acidic environment void of air.

It actually doesn't "survive" it is in stasis.  It cannot survive the acidic environment of honey in it's active form but the spores can survive.  It can, however not only live without air, but it requires a lack of air.  It is an anaerobic bacteria and dies in the presence of oxygen.  The reason botulism is a problem for infants is that their digestive system is not very acidic yet when they are mostly or entirely living on milk.  So infants under 6 months should not be fed raw food (including but not limited to honey).  I'm not recommending honey for infants, but keep in mind that several large communities in the world have always fed a newborn honey as their first food.  Like most of the world for most of time...
http://www.honey-health.com/honey-used-in-birth-rituals/

And no one noticed any problems with it.

[azzkell]

Thanks Michael, you are the Obi-Wan of bee keeping.
Will pass the wisdom on to my friend.
Cheers,
Aaron.

[bwallace23350]

It will not make an adult sick. I eat raw honey regularly. It forms a sweet staple of my diet. With that being said I have not fed it to my 21 month old. I am going to wait for his 2nd birthday as I have read don't feed it to children under 1 and don't feed it to children under 2.

[Michael Bush]

The original number was children under 6 months.  Then the pediatricians to "be safe" made it under 1.  Then the parents to be safe made it under 2...  Inflation...

[bwallace23350]

Haha I can understand that. Well either way I am just going to give him a spoonful of his dads honey in 3 months.

[azzkell]

Possibly safer than some of the stuff we are putting into the mouths of the young these days anyway. Fruits covered in pesticides/fungicides,  artificial everything in anything processed, added sugers and sweeteners. Mostly long term effects.
I advocate to anyone who will listen to replace sugers with honey in everything.

[BeeMaster2]

To add to the list. Most processed foods contain corn syrup as the sweetener. Almost all of our corn has neonicitinoids. A nerve agent that is so powerful that it works with levels of only parts per billion. 
Jim

[bwallace23350]

According to my pediatrician 1 year is the recommended waiting level. I think I am still going to wait to his 2nd birthday and then give him some of his dad's honey on his cake. That way it is special for me and him.

[lisaclara]

Sodium butyrate could regulate bees memory genes.

[azzkell]

BWallace, that would be the safe option. Wonder if it safe to use honey externally on wounds with infants.  Botulism can be contracted from contaminated soils through open wounds!

Thanks for the insight lisaclara. You should start a new chat on the subject, be interested in hearing more about it.

Aaron.

[bwallace23350]

Not sure about the wound part. The botulism you get from the soil is the actual pathogen. What you get from honey is not a live pathogen but just spores that have been produced.

[GSF]

bw, it was a common practice by the confederate doctors to apply honey to burns and wounds. Honey is an awesome aid to help heal any kind of wound.

[bwallace23350]

Thanks GSF for that. Always good to know.