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Author Topic: Mite Question  (Read 2667 times)

Offline BobMac

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Mite Question
« on: October 02, 2016, 09:24:14 am »
New to bees this past spring,2 hives all medium 8 frames.
Was talking to another beekeeper, told him I was treating for mites giving
my hives a better chance to over winter.He says just split alot and you won't have any
mite problems?? I might be dense, but could someone with more experience please
explain how splitting keeps mites out of the hive ? Is it because of less bees equals less mites??
But don't the bee's in the smaller hives have treatable numbers of mites?? just a newbee confused


thanks BobMac

Offline pjigar

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2016, 10:21:53 am »
Mites need brood to reproduce. The split without a new queen introduces a brood less period which is where the mite population dwindles down. At least this is how I understand it. Expert please correct me if I I am wrong.

Hmmm... Now that I think about it, what about queen right portion of the split? How does the mite in the queen right portion goes down? More questions than answers.


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Offline little john

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2016, 01:36:28 pm »
I think there's some truth in that claim, although I wouldn't want to rely on it as a means of Varroa control.

By constantly splitting, you're effectively creating multiple nucleus colonies - this does indeed create a brood break - but also, one characteristic of nucleus colonies is that they seldom rear drones (and if they do, it's never very many) - and - as Varroa mites have a marked preference for drone larvae, there should be a subsequent reduction in mite numbers. But I'd say 'a reduction in numbers' only, and not complete elimination.
LJ
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 01:56:53 pm by little john »
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2016, 08:29:33 pm »
How does the mite in the queen right portion goes down?

You can pinch the queen or bank her.  I don't do either.
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Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2016, 08:57:16 pm »
When the colony is split, both parts being small, revert to the expansion mode and they again begin to produce more brood and grow faster than the varroa mites can.  A split or a swarm takes away 30 to 45% of the colony's mites.  Splitting, combined with sugar dusting and mite trapping with drone brood, can keep mite population growth low enough that they will not need other treatments going into winter.

Offline iddee

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2016, 09:04:59 pm »
Splitting will cut your honey harvest to little or nothing. Who cares about mites if you aren't going to get a harvest. Might as well let the mites have them.

Splitting should only be done to increase hive count, or reduce swarming, not to reduce mites.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 08:37:27 am »
Splitting will cut your honey harvest to little or nothing. Who cares about mites if you aren't going to get a harvest.

Thousands upon thousands of back yard beekeepers have little interest in the commercial aspects of beekeeping.  I am selling honey not because I want to.  I only sold about half of what I got last year and it looks like I am going to get another harvest about the same size.  So what to do with all the honey, AGAIN!
It is my experience that splitting an overwintered hive in half does not limit the honey harvest in a hobbyist point of view.  They are not looking to get all that they can get and they are not supporting their families on bee products.  They are just trying to have fun.
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Online Michael Bush

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2016, 11:59:08 am »
If you look at the BIP surveys over the past few years, the losses by people treating and not treating have not bee significantly different.  As far as splits, one way to look at it is you are expanding to make up for your losses.  If you do walk away splits then the queenless half has a brood break and that would lessen the number of mites.  I have not treated for Varroa at all in 13 years now...

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Offline iddee

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2016, 07:40:43 pm »
Beekeepers don't want to make honey?? That doesn't even rate a reply.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2016, 07:49:40 pm »
Who said beekeepers don't want to make honey?  You did.  No one else.  You also said they won't make ENOUGH honey if they split for varroa control.  And I say you are wrong.  That is where we are at.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 08:56:07 pm »
NO, I did not. I said would not make as much, if any. I never said anything about how much one needed to be ENOUGH for them.

""They are not looking to get all that they can get"'

When I played golf or went bowling, I did it for fun, not profit, but I still got the best score I could. I think most all beekeepers try to end up with all the honey or bees they can. It's just human nature to do the best one can. Maybe you're different, I don't know. Maybe you do try to do less than your ability if you are doing something just for fun.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 09:22:05 pm »
iddee, when you speak of golf or bowling you are talking about a competitive sport.  Hobby beekeeping is not competitive.  It is like gardening.  You don't have to be competitive you can easily produce more food than you can eat before it rots.  If I put 50 pounds of potatoes into the ground and get out a hundred I have still gained, it is a success but by commercial standards it would be suicide.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2016, 09:47:23 pm »
You're hard to understand. I never competed against anyone. I played for fun and only to see how well I could do. I never tried to outdo anyone. Also, I have never played a ball game. I only compete against myself. I have no idea what your post means.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2016, 08:26:18 am »
If you get out of beekeeping what you want you have won the competition.  You don't need to do anymore.  I never played any sports either.  I hated little league.  It was the worst experience in my life.
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Offline little john

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2016, 10:24:38 am »
Splitting will cut your honey harvest to little or nothing. Who cares about mites if you aren't going to get a harvest. Might as well let the mites have them.

The wording of your comment above could be interpreted as a rather mercenary attitude towards beekeeping: that the objective is primarily to harvest honey, even at the expense of a lost colony from Varroa infestation.  Effectively - that the welfare of those animals comes second to the benefits for humans which can be reaped from the bees' efforts.


I understand Brian's last few posts ...
People keep bees for all sorts of reasons: for those with a thousand hives the reasons are clearly those of business, within which one might expect to find a rather hard-hearted approach. But for many, perhaps even the vast majority, with just a couple or half-dozen hives in their backyards - beekeeping is a hobby which may produce a few dozen jars of honey for themselves and friends - but mostly it's a hobby in the same way that fishing (angling), or gardening is a hobby.

Then there's the middle group - the 'sideliners' - those with from (say) twenty to a hundred hives. For such folk I'd suggest beekeeping is somewhere between a self-financing hobby and a way of supplementing an income from elsewhere.

And finally there are the 'odd-balls' (like me), who neither seek an income from bees nor from honey. For some of us, beekeeping provides an opportunity to observe the lives of the most fascinating of wild creatures - one which has intrigued human beings even from before the time of Aristotle.  For myself, I now have the opportunity to continue my former occupation of developing new ways of 'building better mousetraps' for the Quality and Assurance Division of a major international chemical company, by trying to improve one or two aspects of beekeeping instead.  And for me, improving Quality is the goal, not Quantity.

So most certainly - beekeeping isn't always about achieving a maximum honey crop.
LJ
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Offline iddee

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2016, 10:47:37 am »
You both are failing to understand what I am trying to say. Let's forget about bees for a minute and just think life. When a person spends money and time doing something, regardless of why he is doing it, I suspect he wants to do it to the best of his ability and reap the best reward. Doing less than that is just beyond my comprehension.

Why do anything half a**?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline sc-bee

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2016, 11:36:48 am »
Uggghhhhh what happened to this thread  :shocked:
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Mite Question
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2016, 08:42:58 pm »
LJ you nailed it.  Iddee what you are missing is most beekeepers are doing the best they can but it not the best YOU can.  Our lives are different.  We have priories that you would not want to deal with.  You might fail miserably if you were wearing some our our shoes.   Trust me, (I hate that phrase) we love what you have to offer, you and many others, but we have to wear our shoes.  We don't want you to put your feet in our shoes but we do appreciate hearing from the ground you have walked on.
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